Got Welder need wiring Advice ASAP!

Mrwurm · May 23, 2003

Ok, I am curious. This setup appears to be fused twice. Once in the main panel and again in the subpanel. Why is this needed? I am sure there is a good answer.

Now I'm wondering about my barn. I have one 20 amp gfci breaker in my main house panel that sends an underground feed to my barn. The cable enters the barn and splits off to my wall outlets. There is also a 15 amp gfci breaker in my main panel that feeds an underground cable to my barn that feeds all the lights. Should I have a fused box in my barn?

Inspector507 · May 24, 2003

Jerry,
The current code requires a disconnect at the second and third building. Previous codes did not. Just gives you handier place to shut things down if needed.

bnixon · May 24, 2003

OK,

I have switched the feed to the top of the box.

It does seem to work fine.

If I am to remove this "FPE breaker box" what should I replace it with?

How is it supose to be wired?

Do I need a ground running from the new box to a grounding rod?

How do I tie the ground into the new box?

Where should the grounding pin from the outlet be wired too?

I am now offically confused...this surely can not be that hard? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks,

Inspector507 · May 24, 2003

Brandon,
If you decide to replace the breaker box, any of the following brands are good quality

Square D
GE
ITE
Siemens

When replacing, yes you probably should drive a gorund rod. The grounding conductor goes to the neutral bar in the new panel. There should be 4 wires running from the main panel to the fused sup panel. It will work with three, but four is code. The ground pin of your outlet should be connected to the bare ground that is coming from your main panel..........if you have one.

Let me know if you're more confused now than ever /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jerry

bnixon · May 24, 2003

Inspector507,

Thanks for the info. The box I have now is a Square D box.

Do I still need to replace it?

Now onto the wiring. My house was built in 1963 and was not in the city limits at that time. So the electrical system is not what I would call a "good one". It is aluminum wiring and there is only a 2 wire system in the house. All of the outlet boxes are metal and the outlets are grounded to them. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I had to put in a grounding rod because the original ground from the main panel was grounded to the plumbing (screw pipe) and I replaced it all with copper. That is how I found the ground! When I installed the grounding rod I tied it into the box in the same place that the original one was. In the bar that all of the nutral (WHITE) wires were terminated.

There is not a isolated Ground bar in the main box. Is there supose to be?

Needless to say the wire running from the main box to my sub box has no ground wire. Just Red/Black/White.

Should I run a ground wire back to the box? Could you give me some guidance? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

thanks,

Inspector507 · May 24, 2003

If you have a Square D, there is probably no need to replace it. The picture you first posted was definately an FPE box.
I have some reservations as to the comment on aluminum wiring in a hiouse that was built in 1963. To my knowledge, aluminum branch circiut wiring did not become popular until the late 60's or early 70's. If you only have a 2 wire system in the house, grounding the outlets to the box does nothing at all. Now if you have metal sheathed cables feeding the outlets, then grounding the outlets to the box would be correct.
There is no need for an isolated ground bar in the main panel. Installing the ground wire to the neutral bar would be correct. If you still have all copper plumbing, run another wire from the panel to the water lines to bond them. It would be your main ground if you have metal underground piping coming in.

Let me know if you need any more assistance

RonL · May 24, 2003

Inspector 507

The piping must be bonded but I believe a ground rod must be driven. I don't believe that using underground piping as the main ground meets code. Many feed lines are replaced with plastic.

RonL

Inspector507 · May 24, 2003

He's already driven a ground rod. The metal underground water piping is a much better grounding electrode than a piddly 8' rod. Although, you are correct, metal underground piping must be supplemented with a rod, just in case it does get replaced with plastic.

Mrwurm · May 24, 2003

Ok, since we're talking electricity here, how about another question. I have a ground rod that is wired to my main house panel. I also have two satellite dishes that each have their own ground rod. Someone told me this was not good because it would would create a 'loop' or induced field. Does this make any sense? Should I have only one ground rod?

bnixon · May 24, 2003

OK,

So ....If the white wire is running back to the grounded bus in the main box and the ground wire in the outlet for the welder is tied into this. Isn't the white wire just acting as a ground?

Or am I just not getting it here?

I guess the big issue is does it meet building code? If not what should I do to make it meet code. I want to be safe and legal!

Thanks again for all of the great helo you have given me!

Oh yea,

On the pipe...all of the pipe is in the attic! I live in Houston and we don't freeze. So this means there is only one 3/4" pipe running into the ground on the other side of the house.

I have already put in a grounding rod and change the main ground to the rod.

Thanks again.