Governor/speed control

   / Governor/speed control #1  

patrickg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2001
Messages
1,388
Location
South Central Oklahoma
Tractor
Kubota Grand L4610HSTC
My Kubota has a primitive speed setting device. It actually holds the HST pedal for you (course click stops with no fine adjust) and you manually adjust the throtle. Often I have thought how nice it would be to be able to have the tractor automatically maintain RPM with varying load. Why couldn't a speed control from a used car (read buy from a junk yard) be made to control the tractor throtle for constant RPM? Maybe one of the aftermarket cruise controls could be used to do it.

Any thoughts?

Patrick
 
   / Governor/speed control #2  
The HST pedal sets ground speed. The throttle sets engine speed. On every tractor I've had the opportunity to run, the throttle actually is a governor control, and once engine speed is set, the governor maintains it, within the capabilities of the engine to handle the load. Stated another way, as long as you don't overload the engine, the governor will maintain set speed.

If your govorner is not maintaining set speed, it needs to be repaired.

The reason your car maintains a set ROAD SPEED with a cruise control is because the transmission will downshift if the engine gets loaded to the point where it can't maintain the set speed.

In order for your idea to work, you'd need to control both the transmission and the engine. Not saying it can't be done, but I seriously doubt it's within the capabilities of a home mechanic using salvaged parts.
 
   / Governor/speed control
  • Thread Starter
#3  
pfoxy, Maybe there are too many moving parts for me but I don't have quite the same "take" on things as you. Pardon me if I go on about what seems obvious but in the past, not having a common understanding before trying to move into uncharted waters has resulted in a lot more confusion than communications, so...

My understanding of the HST pedal is that it sets the hydraulic equivalent of the gear ratio (varies the stroke on hydrauic pump).

Then at that HST setting (gear ratio) you can vary your ground speed by changing the throttle, not unlike in a regular vehicle. The "cruise control" or whatever it is called in the book is a mechanical thingy that holds the HST pedal in one of several notches until or unless you: 1. depress the brake, 2. depress the HST, or 3. hit a decent bump.

Alternatively, you could set the throttle and vary ground speed by varying the HST (gear ratio).

On the Kubota L4610HSTC, I don't think there is a governor that is working to hold whatever RPM you set with the throttle while in neutral. I bought the tractor new. If their is, it either doesn't work or doesn't work the way I need.

If I have any of the foregoing messed up, straighten me out because as I proceed to build on that foundation I need the foundation to hold up.

Now for the NEW thing I want and a couple ideas on how it might work.

After market cruise control I saw has a sensor (coil) mounted near driveline where a magnet is placed. The rotating magnet induces an electric pulse in the coil each time it goes by so the vehicle speed has a pulses per unit time (sec min whatever) signal. I don't know if that is made into an analog DC level to represent drive shaft RPM or if it is a pulse rate vs speed (digital) signal. I suspect it was analog. Once set, the controller adjusts the throttle to maintain that signal.

If you replaced the DC analog signal with a potentiometer wired to the battery you could "lie" to the cruise control and tell it you were going at whatever speed you wanted to and it would either advance or ****** the throtle to try to correct the speed signal. Given this ability, we need to "make" a signal to give to the cruise control. This signal would represent, not ground speed, but engine speed. This can be achieved various ways. Put a magnet on something that rotates when the engine runs and put the sensor coil near that. Could be the fan, alternator, A/C compressor pulley, or whatever. If ballance is an issue put on two magnets, one on each side.

I'm not a super mechanical genious so I could sure use some help figuring out the throttle connection but I would try to imitate the setup that automakers use on their cruise control. I figure I don't need the disconnect-on-brake-application feature since I'm not controlling vehicle/tractor speed just engine speed. If I take my foot off the HST or dissengage the HST "HOLD" feature I am in neutral and come to a stop. Shoudln't matter much that the engine is still at "set" RPM till I turn the cruise control off.

If your tractors all have RPM holding governors, then you know why I want this. It would be a great convenience to have the tractor hold a steady RPM under varying loads.

If I am brush hogging on a hill, the tractor goes a lot faster downhill than up. I advance the throttle to hold my RPM up on the uphill run, then on the downhill run I have to ****** it to avoid overspeeding. If I am box blading and have a full box going up a slight grade and advance the throttle to keep the RPM up where it ought to be for some performance then when I dump the box I have to be reducing the throttle or RPM goes too high. If I had an RPM holding governor, I would think that effect would be elliminated or severely reduced (if it worked right). I'll check to see but suspect I don't have what I want. Many diesele have governors but aren't they used for rev limiters not rev setters?

Patrick
 
   / Governor/speed control #4  
Patrickg.. I think I have experienced what you are talking about.

On my 8N for instance, I set my throttle, and then if the tractor loads up, the governor ( spring lever, and some other parts ) will more or less maintain the engine speed if the engine can.

On my new holland 1920.. I set my throttle, and then if the bushhogging gets tough.. the rpm goes down.. I have to throttle up to maintain rpm.

I realize the 1920 is governed.. but seems like it only limits it from 'runaway'.. not to maintain rpm.. like the governor on the old gas powered 8n, etc.

Soundguy
 
   / Governor/speed control #5  
Well. First let me say that it's entirely possible that I am horribly confused. Happens to me a lot /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

I have VERY limited experience with HST. I have hydro on my JD LX178 lawn mower, and it works as I described. Throttle sets engine speed, governor compensates for load to keep engine at set speed, HST pedal controls ground speed.

My only other experience with HST is about 15 minutes on a JD 4300, playing around doing a little loader work. It appeared to work the same way, but I wasn't moving in a constant direction at a constant speed long enough to make any meaningful evaluation.

I have NO seat time on a Kubota.

That being said, I still lean toward the idea that your governor is not working properly. As far as I know, ALL diesels, (and probably all gas tractor engines) are governed in the way I described, not just for overspeed protection.

If it t'were me, I'd be talking to my Kubota dealer about it. I'm willing to grant that there's some interaction between HST transmissions and engine governors that I'm unaware of.

I'll be interested in what you find out, and sorry I can't be more help.
 
   / Governor/speed control
  • Thread Starter
#6  
A likely sceanario is that if I have a governor it is working the way they designed and built it, just not the way I want/need it.

Given the comments of others, I'm not the only one who has to manually regulate the throttle to try to hold a constant RPM under varying load. I'm some familiar with the sound/feel of a governor at work and it seems like there is something going on at startup. I think it throttles up when cranking and backs off after it fires up. This is when I start at min throttle.

If I have the throttle quite advanced, max or close to it, while brush hogging at a higher than typical ground speed and let the load keep RPM down where I want it, if I let up on the HST a bit to make a turn without a four wheel drift then the revs go way up. So if I have a governor as you suggest I might, it doesn't work right or do what I want/ need.

I guess I'll just put this on a couple of "THE LISTS." One is a list of things I just don't get/understand and need to look into. The other is a list of things to design, time permitting.

AND...just in case, I'll call my tractor dealer and ask about governors.

Patrick
 
   / Governor/speed control #7  
An observation I made last night while adding winterizing fuel stabilizer to all my various toys...er tools, was that on my riding lawnmower, I set the throttle, and that determins ground speed... if I hit a heavy patch of gras, you can hear the engine throttle up to maintain rpm.. and ground speed... when you hit a low patch, the mower still goes the same ground speed, as the governer lets off.. again.. just like the governor on my gas 8N.. but unlike the governor on my NH 1920... as load is increased, throttle must be increased or rpms drop, thus ground speed drops.

Soundguy
 
   / Governor/speed control
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Soundguy, Even the old push it yourself rotary mowers with vertical shaft engines had governors. Usually a spring working against a vane that was in the cooling air blast. If RPM dropped under load the air flow was reduced and the spring advanced the throttle increasing RPM until the increase in cooling air made the vane pull against the spring enough to limit throttle. Considering the simplicity they worked pretty good. Don't know when that system started but the 50's vintage Briggs powered unit I had in grade school used it.

Patrick
 
   / Governor/speed control #9  
The governor on my 1952 ford 8n is a combination of cintrifugal, and a few springs / levers. Also incorporates a gear step down drive for the tachometer.

Good stuff.. and worked.. still works..

Soundguy
 
   / Governor/speed control #10  
I have driven (operated) a lot of Diesel Powered equipment in my pass life and everyone of the items had a governor. If you over load the machine, governer or not, it will slow it's travel speed or in the case of operating, say a FEL, it will stall the engine in that also. I feel that if you cannot hear the governer open when you put your tractor under load that you need to have the governer checked.
 

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