Gov't mandates gas can flame arrestors.

[aczlan]

I'd agree pouring gas on an open fire would be stupid, but pouring gas on what appears to be no fire at all is just a lack of knowledge. You can be the smartest most knowledgeable person on the planet and the the body of knowledge that you don't know will always be larger than the body you do.

That "darwin award" could be your young grandson trying to take initiative and help out when your back is turned for 10 seconds, that's all it takes. If the flame arrestors cause you problems filling or pouring then you're doing something wrong. I have cans with them from 70 years old to 2 years old wit them and they all fill and pour fine.

1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

 

[honeoye]

i took several tubeless tire valves, took out the stem drilled hole on plastic and metal cans several when empty of course, then stuck piece of tie wire through holes in can then through valve stem threaded end on first put kink in wire near base to guide through small drilled hole. Pulled into hole until it popped into place. removed wire of course placed valve cap and wallah non leaking vent. no engineers or congress to figure that out.

Tire valves contain rubber (not designed for contact with solvents) and gasoline will deteriorate the rubber over time. The gasoline container may have dissolved rubber and particles in in that could clog carburetors and the improperly designed vent may eventually leak.

 

[cqaigy2]

1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

Someone using a chainsaw near a bonfire. I know better then to do a second dowsing of gasoline, also that fumes are heavy and i wouldn't use gas anyway. But i don't use diesel, which i don't have, nor oil.

Nothing stopping you from trying to pass a law that mandates minimum education and certification, before one can buy and use a gas can. And be sure to come up with a funding source for said mandate, and you'll need inspectors to go around and make sure we all can show our gas can card. Or if you mean some "expert" should be around each time a new person goes to us a gas can, well that would be great, but not going to happen. There's no such thing as "common sense", it's information that you've been exposed to, not some genetically imprinted smarts.

 

[not2old]

I'm old and lazy. I use a tiger torch and a leaf blower for starting a fire. It's fast and easy, no gas can needed.

 

[aczlan]

Someone using a chainsaw near a bonfire. I know better then to do a second dowsing of gasoline, also that fumes are heavy and i wouldn't use gas anyway. But i don't use diesel, which i don't have, nor oil.

Nothing stopping you from trying to pass a law that mandates minimum education and certification, before one can buy and use a gas can. And be sure to come up with a funding source for said mandate, and you'll need inspectors to go around and make sure we all can show our gas can card. Or if you mean some "expert" should be around each time a new person goes to us a gas can, well that would be great, but not going to happen. There's no such thing as "common sense", it's information that you've been exposed to, not some genetically imprinted smarts.

Why would you do any dousing with gasoline? It flashes off very fast compared to other fuels, and it is risky.

My father in law got himself banned from starting bonfires (by his wife who would prefer that he not end up in the burn unit) after he used mixed gas to start a fire and just about turned himself into a human torch because it made a vapor cloud and the whole pile (10'x10'x10' or there about) went up when he tried to light it. He was lucky that he only lost his eyebrows and some of his hair.

I have known not to use gas since I was in the single digits for age, I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

Aaron Z

 

[cqaigy2]

Why would you do any dousing with gasoline? It flashes off very fast compared to other fuels, and it is risky.

My father in law got himself banned from starting bonfires (by his wife who would prefer that he not end up in the burn unit) after he used mixed gas to start a fire and just about turned himself into a human torch because it made a vapor cloud and the whole pile (10'x10'x10' or there about) went up when he tried to light it. He was lucky that he only lost his eyebrows and some of his hair.

I have known not to use gas since I was in the single digits for age, I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

Aaron Z

Because you don't know any better, so why would you nix something that possibly saved your FIL or your other relative? I'm curious though, what happened so that you knew by single digit age, not to use gasoline, and did you know why?

 

[MossRoad]

Because you don't know any better, so why would you nix something that possibly saved your FIL or your other relative? I'm curious though, what happened so that you knew by single digit age, not to use gasoline, and did you know why?

In my case it was because the fire department came to our classroom and gave a demonstration on gasoline fumes. They had a device with metal pans and clear tubes that showed how gasoline fumes traveled. We saw it in a can at an upper level, and a spark in a lower level. They opened a little door in the upper and we watched the fumes (not the liquid, the fumes) tumble down the clear tube until it hit the spark, then FOOM! up the tube and it blew the lid off the upper can. That was about 2 drops of gas.

Then there was the time as a child I saw a house explode. Guy and his wife died of burns. Someone was cleaning tar off of clothes in the kitchen with gasoline, and someone went downstairs in the basement. The fumes traveled down the stairs and hit a pilot light or something and boom. At least that's how my dad explained it to me as I kept asking about it for a long time afterwards. I think I was somewhere between 5 and 7. Can't recall for sure.

 

[seijirou]

1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

As I wrote in the post you're replying to, the whole problem arises from a lack of knowledge. So you're asking questions about why did a person do a thing they shouldn't do, from the lack of knowledge that I pointed out in the first place.

If you really want to ensure people must have the proper knowledge before they can do a thing, that means you legislate licensing and a required exam to get the license. That's your answer to #2 in particular, "he" hasn't been taught because we don't require to "you" have a license to buy gasoline, gasoline containers, or start bonfires. I don't want any of that. Do you want any of that?

Alternatively we can implement a very inexpensive, automatic, effective, and reliable feature that will dramatically improve outcomes when someone makes this mistake and learns it the hard way but the not necessarily deadly way.

Nobody is stomping on anybody's rights here. As I wrote, the EPA certainly gets plenty of things wrong but this isn't one of them.

 

[seijirou]

I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

This is a perfect example of lack of knowledge. Why did your relative risk it? They didn't think they were risking it. They thought the 15-20' took all the risk away. They're not stupid, or lacking common sense or whatever, they just didn't have that specific knowledge about just how resilient fuel vapors can be even outside.

 

[bcp]

Flame arrestors, etc. are a good idea. What's wrong is how the manufacturers meet the requirements in a way that hurts usability.

Bruce

 

[Jstpssng]

Accidents with gasoline are a major cause of thermal burns in the U.S. It has been reported that gasoline-related burns account for 13,000 – 15,000 ED visits per year. According to the United States Fire Administration, there were an estimated 463 burn injuries caused by the misuse of gasoline in 1998. However, since USFA data are based on reports of incidents to which fire departments responded, they do not include injuries where those sustaining burns from gasoline were transported directly to hospitals by other means. Since injury statistics are organized according to numerical code sets which lack a separate code for gasoline as a cause of burn injury, the total number of such injuries is unknown. However, such injuries can be very severe, as is evident in their frequent transfer for treatment at one the nation’s 125 specialized burn care facilities. In the USFA report, about 80% of the victims were males and the incidence was remarkably well distributed by age (with a spike at age 30) from birth until about age 45. At that age, incidence drops off considerably and remains low through older

A bit outdated perhaps, but it was the first thing which came up in a search.

http://ameriburn.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/gasolinesafetyeducatorsguide.pdf#:~:text=Accidents%20with%20gasoline%20are%20a%20major%20cause%20of,off%20considerably%20and%20remains%20low%20through%20older%20age.

 

[ruffdog]

Do you need a spark arrestor if you double bag?

 

[Jstpssng]

Do you need a spark arrestor if you double bag?

That's one way to get around the new nozzles.

 

[shooterdon]

Do you need a spark arrestor if you double bag?

And they breed....

 

[aebsmithcreek]

I have had plastic screens on some of my Gerry cans for years, guys are getting their knickers in knots over nothing. The added benefit to the "flame arrestors" is it keeps dead flies and crud from inside your cans getting into your machinery fuel tanks.

BTW my 151 proof rum has a flame arrestor screen, my life hasn't turned upside down because of its presence.

Go back to worrying about secret microchips in medical vaccines.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but to me the screen is a secondary issue, the primary issue is the over regulation that has become rampant in the U.S. Think about it, with all that is going wrong in this country and they are taking time to regulate gas cans? really? I hope our governor tells them where to go and someone in state starts making old fashioned gas cans and they make a fortune selling them to out of staters who are tired of living in a nanny state.
As already stated you can't legislate stupid and natural selection is going to bite some butts every year. For myself and the good of the country I KNOW the elected need to worry about the business of legitimate problems and people injuring or killing themselves with gas cans is not high on the priority list of the problems we face. Another man bun wearing @&& that is living proof that a person can be educated beyond their intelligence coming up with some bs problem to convince his equally over educated cronies how enlightened and needed he ( or she ) is to keep the great unwashed masses safe from theirselves.

 

[aczlan]

Because you don't know any better, so why would you nix something that possibly saved your FIL or your other relative? I'm curious though, what happened so that you knew by single digit age, not to use gasoline, and did you know why?

1. My relative got his face burned and I was made aware that it was from mixing gas and fire
2. My Grandfather was a fire chief and he drilled it into Dad who drilled it into me.
In short, education.
I didn't perhaps know the why at a single digit age, but I knew that I was never to use gasoline to light a fire because there was a significant chance that an explosion would result.

This is a perfect example of lack of knowledge. Why did your relative risk it? They didn't think they were risking it. They thought the 15-20' took all the risk away. They're not stupid, or lacking common sense or whatever, they just didn't have that specific knowledge about just how resilient fuel vapors can be even outside.

Exactly, a lack of knowledge was the root cause. Additionally, it was a empty or almost empty can which is more dangerous than a full one when it comes to explosive potential as you can put out a lit cigarette in a pan of gasoline, but vaporize the contents of that pan and contain them where they are between 1.2% and 7.1% of the volume of the container and you have a explosion waiting to happen.

Aaron Z

 

[retiredIW]

Tire valves contain rubber (not designed for contact with solvents) and gasoline will deteriorate the rubber over time. The gasoline container may have dissolved rubber and particles in in that could clog carburetors and the improperly designed vent may eventually leak.

OMG

 

[aczlan]

As I wrote in the post you're replying to, the whole problem arises from a lack of knowledge. So you're asking questions about why did a person do a thing they shouldn't do, from the lack of knowledge that I pointed out in the first place.

If you really want to ensure people must have the proper knowledge before they can do a thing, that means you legislate licensing and a required exam to get the license. That's your answer to #2 in particular, "he" hasn't been taught because we don't require to "you" have a license to buy gasoline, gasoline containers, or start bonfires. I don't want any of that. Do you want any of that?

Alternatively we can implement a very inexpensive, automatic, effective, and reliable feature that will dramatically improve outcomes when someone makes this mistake and learns it the hard way but the not necessarily deadly way.

Nobody is stomping on anybody's rights here. As I wrote, the EPA certainly gets plenty of things wrong but this isn't one of them.

Where do you read my posts as calling for more rules and licensing? The problem is that if it's anything like the previous gas can mandates, it will cause them to become harder to fill a can without spilling and they will leak more than the system that they are replacing.

Aaron Z

 

[retiredIW]

Where do you read my posts as calling for more rules and licensing? The problem is that if it's anything like the previous gas can mandates, it will cause them to become harder to fill a can without spilling and they will leak more than the system that they are replacing.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

Ah, got to thinking about fire department demo we saw in grade school. This is very similar.