Grand L 40s - HST Plus

[TalonDancer]

I've had a little time now (27hrs on the clock) to get familiar with my Grand L3240's HST Plus tranny.

There's lots to like.

In "normal" HST mode...
1 - on fairly level ground it slows, stops and holds the tractor steady by just lifting off the HST pedal.
2 - it's easy to backup a little or go forward a little, by just rocking your right foot.
3- over narrow speed ranges you can use the HST pedal to adjust speed.

The HST plus adds nice conveniences like ...
4- the little Hydo Dual Speed (H-DS) lever on the steering column which makes minor speed / power adjustment instantly (e.g. HST M - high & low).
5- HST Response Control which adjusts how quickly the HST responds to the foot pedal.
6- Stall Guard - that does what is says.
7- Auto H-DS - that does switch to low but only when the engine is bogging down more than I would allow before manually switching

Then it gets a bit more esoteric...
8- Auto Throttle Advance - which converts the HST pedal into a pseudo "gas pedal". IMO this potentially killer feature is severely flawed. First - it only works going forward - DUH. But more importantly, it's only useful in conjunction with...
9- Cruise Control - which AFAIK only vaguely resembles cruise control in cars.
a- it does shut off when you press the brake.
b- it will keep the tractor moving forward when you take you foot of the HST pedal. But even when set to full on, the forward motion is pretty slow.

OTOH Cruise Control acts like sort of a manual throttle control when used in conjunction with Auto Throttle Advance - pushing the cruise control lever forward _reduces_ the engine speed needed to achieve a given forward speed. IOW it acts as an infinitely variable gear box that makes Auto Throttle Advance usable. With the Cruise Control lever at its lowest level, when you press on the HST pedal, the engine revs to over 2,000 RPM just to begin moving the tractor. But if you push the Cruise Control lever forward the tractor will begin to move forward at near idle speeds.

In fairness, Kubota describes Auto Throttle Advance in the context of long distance travel ( e.g. hauling a trailer etc.). And it does do that well. BUT it could have been SO MUCH MORE if they had not linked it to Cruise Control and had allowed Auto Throttle Advance to work in reverse as well as forward.

BTW the Kubota website does not even mention Cruise Control in Grand 40 section???

FWIW I have less than 60 total hours of tractor experience (30hrs on a rented L39 GST and 27hrs on my GL3240 HST plus). So is it possible that I just don't get it I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Talon Dancer

 

[canoetrpr]

Now I understand that I might well be the odd guy out here but I'm not personally a big fan of the complexity the HST+ features / eHydro features add.

I see this as cost (complexity) vs. benefit. I'm happy to take on the extra complexity of HST because I find that the feature offers so much benefit in return.

I've tried the L3940 but not done any real work on it. The new features seemed neat but to be honest I'd much prefer fewer electronics over them... maybe I just won't appreciate the benefit they offer until I use them for an extended period.

I feel that the complexity will just make me more reliant on dealers to debug problems in the long term and right now I'm really happy with being less reliant on them and either fumbling myself trying to fix something or taking it down to the local repair shop.

Now that said, I am happy to accept the compelxity in my cars. I would not give up the ABS or traction control or GPS that I have become used to. Just don't think I need more electronics than absolutely essential on the tractor.

Just MHO.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I do like the auto throttle in loader applications. If you turn on auto throttle, stall guard, and auto HDS, you can basicly just drive into a pile and floor the pedal to get alot of push, then back out and go. It is useful in the right application, but clearly not somthing you want on all the time.

 

[TalonDancer]

Now I understand that I might well be the odd guy out here but I'm not personally a big fan of the complexity the HST+ features / eHydro features add....

I agree. I'm concerned about the complexity of these HST Plus features and how well they will hold up over time.

FWIW the only parts of the HST Plus that I use all the time are...
"4- the little Hydo Dual Speed (H-DS) lever on the steering column ... and
6- Stall Guard - that does what is says."

Frankly my HST shifter is such a pain that I wonder how I'd get anything done without the Hydro Dual Speed. I'd be spending lots of time fiddling with the clutch, brake, etc. just trying to get the HST shifter into and out of Low. Hopefully this linkage will get "broken in" soon.

The "5- HST Response Control ... and 7 - Auto H-DS... are not really very useful to me. I only use the Auto Throttle Advance (and obligatory Cruise Control) when fetching the mail or taking out the garbage on our 1,000'+ driveway. Walking the drive in the blazing sun (w/ temps in the upper 90s - low 100s) of Central Texas in August could be life threatening. Besides the tractor is almost always already warmed up these days

Talon Dancer

 

[TalonDancer]

I do like the auto throttle in loader applications. If you turn on auto throttle, stall guard, and auto HDS, you can basicly just drive into a pile and floor the pedal to get alot of push, then back out and go....

That's how I thought I'd use it. But with the Auto Throttle on, my GL3240 does not even _move_ until the engine gets to nearly 2,000RPM (unless the Cruise Control is forward at least half way). So I wonder just how much "push" I'd get for all that engine effort.

Is that the way its supposed to work? Do you adjust the Cruise Control?

Talon Dancer

 

[bmiker]

The auto throttle is not very useful feature if you are just puttering around. But if you are need near full power for say heavy work like box blade or loader work it works good for me .

 

[canoetrpr]

The feature I would really like is the two extra ranges within a range that can be selected without stopping the tractor using the steering mounted lever.

I use LO when I am doing loader work. Would be nice to be able to select the lower level when I actually engage the loader and to select the higher level when I empty the bucket and return to the pile.

 

[dfkrug]

Maybe one or more of you guys with seat time with the new
HST + will go out and try JD's eHydro and compare them. The
eHydro has been around for maybe 7 yr and it has both fans
as detractors. It may have undergone improvements in the
lastest models, too.

I, too, am intrigued by the additional egonomics offered by these
electronically controlled HSTs. Since they have computers now,
I wonder, does each have any diagnostic data access, perhaps
like automotive OBD?

 

[Ranger Rick]

I just got a L3940HSTC in May and I find the HST response control is great when mowing rough ground. It reduces the effect of ones foot bouncing up and down on the forward pedal. I also find that sometimes if you want to shift from low range to hit the reverse pedal slightly before trying to shift. Ranger Rick

 

[TalonDancer]

I just got a L3940HSTC in May and I find the HST response control is great when mowing rough ground. It reduces the effect of ones foot bouncing up and down on the forward pedal. I also find that sometimes if you want to shift from low range to hit the reverse pedal slightly before trying to shift. Ranger Rick

Welcome Ranger Rick!

Thanks for the shifting tip. I'll give this a try tomorrow.

BTW maybe its just my imagination but it seems that if I move the cruise control while in neutral (with the clutch out) I can shift into Low much easier.

Talon Dancer

 

[TalonDancer]

...If you turn on auto throttle, stall guard, and auto HDS, you can basicly just drive into a pile and floor the pedal to get alot of push, then back out and go...

I gave this a try this evening... and it worked a treat I was able to fill the bucket much more consistently.

Thanks for the tip -- Talon Dancer

 

[TalonDancer]

...I, too, am intrigued by the additional egonomics offered by these electronically controlled HSTs. Since they have computers now, I wonder, does each have any diagnostic data access, perhaps
like automotive OBD?

The electronic display acts as a "OBD Like" diagnostic tool. In my Operator's Manual there are 2 pages with 12 different error diagnostics for the HST tranny and a similar number for the GST.

For example...
Display on LCD Screen - "ERROR-83 <> CRUIS NG"
Trouble Item - "Sensor for cruise contorl lever is in trouble"
Operator's Action - "Contact your Kubota dealer. The cruise control does not work. The speed pedal alone serves to run the tractor."

BTW my favorite is "ERROR-90 HST F NG". I let you guess what this one means

Talon Dancer

 

[TalonDancer]

I filled some low spots in our construction driveway with about 20 yards of gravel rich soil then spread 25 yards of road base over it using the tips by Ranger Rick and MessickFarmEqu. They really helped Thanks Guys!

I'd pull up to the pile in M (standard HST or Auto Throttle using Cruise Control). After stopping, I easily shifted down to L by pressing the reverse pedal first. Then I switched to Auto Throttle to attack the pile and fill the bucket. Switched off Auto Throttle to back away from the pile.

BTW the high revs when in Auto Throttle (without using Cruise Control) are actually useful when doing loading. You can play the loud pedal WITHOUT moving the tractor to get more power to the FEL pump for lift and curl etc.

I just wish that "Cruise Control" (AKA infinitely variable gear sift) worked when in reverse. It's annoying to wind up the engine to over 2.000 RPM just to back up a few feet:

Talon Dancer

 

[crazyal]

I don't know about a Kubota but ramming into things with the fel is not recommened. Maybe because of the extra weight. The user manual clearly tells you to level the bucket then slowly push into the pile. That you should use the traction of the tires not the weight/ momentum of the machine. I was told to look for cracking or welded fel arms when looking to buy a BH, that it was a sign of an abused machine. I have hit rocks burried in piles of dirt that even going slowly still feel awfully hard.

Anyway just curious what "just drive into" means.

 

[TalonDancer]

I don't know about a Kubota but ramming into things with the fel is not recommened. Maybe because of the extra weight. The user manual clearly tells you to level the bucket then slowly push into the pile. That you should use the traction of the tires not the weight/ momentum of the machine. I was told to look for cracking or welded fel arms when looking to buy a BH, that it was a sign of an abused machine. I have hit rocks burried in piles of dirt that even going slowly still feel awfully hard.

Anyway just curious what "just drive into" means.

That's actually one of the good things about using Auto Throttle in Low. The machine barely moves until the RPMs hit 2,000. But when it gets moving it has a lot of power. So you are able to push slowly into a pile with a lot of force WITHOUT "ramming" into it with weight/momentum.

Of course you can do this with a normal HST by just manually adjusting the throttle up to 2,000 rpm prior to pushing into the pile and then using the HST pedal to control speed of "attack". The Auto Throttle just makes this a little easier and allows you to play the throttle after you have the bucket full (e.g. while leveling the contents, lowering the bucket etc.)

Talon Dancer

 

[crazyal]

Even if I can't find a local dealer with one to try at least I'm getting first hand reports. To be honest I doubt I would have spent much time looking at the HST Plus features while demo'ing one at a dealer.

 

[TalonDancer]

I moved 10 yds of road base (in two piles) to touch up the entrance area and lower drive using the Auto Throttle technique. These were freshly dumped piles. So I was able to work both of them in M

I've now gotten to where i rarely use the standard HST mode when going forward, except when moving back and forth in close quarters (e.g. boxblading a small section of the drive, FEL work between a pile and close by area, switching between the bucket and pallet fork, etc.).

I just pull up to to the pile in Auto Throttle mode, "down shift" using the (misnamed) Cruise Control lever, level the bucket and push into the pile filling the bucket. Play the loud pedal for more hydraulic pressure to raise and settle the load. Then lower the bucket while backing away for the pile. Goose the loud pedal and slowly "up shift" (using the Cruise Control lever) to run some 300 ft up the driveway (including the 30% grade section) and deposit the load at the entrance. While positioning the Tractor for an accurate dump (backing away while dumping) I briefly switched off Auto Throttle. Then quickly switched it back on for the run down the drive to the pile of road base

The only issue I had was when I tried to go up the 30% grade in two wheel drive. I need to add weight to the box blade to balance the FEL w/ a full load. FWIW The L3240 w/ LA724 and BH90 are very nicely balanced. So I do not want to add water ballast to the tires. I just want to add weight to three point implements when the BH90 is not attached.

Talon Dancer

ps I ticked over 40 hours last night

 

[crazyal]

I wish I could say the same thing about the balance of my 580K. When I was building the road to the house I had a pile of large rocks (2' to 3') in diameter that I would put in the FEL when driving up the hills. Otherwise I could lift the front tires off the ground if I gave it too much throttle. Of course one rock would have been enough if I didn't keep leaving them at the top of the hill.

 

[TalonDancer]

... Of course one rock would have been enough if I didn't keep leaving them at the top of the hill.

LOL! So, did you find a use for all those rocks at the top of the hill ?

BTW that short avg 30% grade with a full FEL is the first place I've noticed the 32 hp as a limitation. The tractor slows down considerably if I leave it in M with the H-DS in "hare". If I don't have enough momentum going in at the bottom, I have to switch the H-DS to "turtle". If I let the HST mode auto-switch the H-DS, it waits until the engine has dropped to nearly 1,100 RPM which "feels" too low to avoid lugging the engine. OTOH I'm new to diesel engines, so I could be wrong. That is the highest torque the engine produces.

Talon Dancer

 

[Don R.]

I purchased a brand spanking new L4240 with the 6 hd loader, 6' Brush Hog (squealer?) and 6' box blade.

I was thrilled at having a more powerful tractor for my mowing, until I actually used it. The 44hp tractor had less pull power on the brush hog than the little 28hp I traded in. I mowed a 5 acre tract, and 9 hours and 16 gallons of diesel I was through; with the tract and the new 4240. The lack of power and tendency to stall where the 2800 bulldozed through the same weeds adn grass was the deal killer. After the dealer told me repeatedly that "nothing was wrong", I sent it back, and await the dealer's reply on Monday.