Grapple Hookup

[wvpolekat]

So, now I am spooked.

If I am understanding correctly, the solenoid valve will be ok with downstream pressure of up to 2250, correct?

If I could locate a 12v diverter valve, I could wire it off the grapple master switch, so when I enable the grapple, it diverts flow to that circuit, when it is disabled flow goes to the 3ph circuit.

If I were to plumb it that way, where would the tank line from the grapple valve go? Could I tee into the tank line from the loader valve?

I did get some work done on it today, mostly painting all the parts on the bucket, but my phone died so no pictures. The Valspar paint was a very good match and it looks sharp.

Also fabbed up the bracket to mount the solenoid valve, just a simple plate, but it really looks good. The paint really makes things look professional.

I have all my hose measurements and will be ordering them tomorrow.

 

[kennyd]

With all due respect,

I simply do not understand why you insist that it is Ok to put all valves in series. The output pressure on the return port on a log splitter is not that critical. Some valves you can, because the input and output ports are built to take the pressure. I am sure you have read the specs on a lot of valves, and noticed that the input and output valves had different psi ratings. Maybe things have not split or cracked for you, but I am sure they do for others, and there have been reports of damage valves on TBN and other sites. I have talked to the Prince engineers, and local hyd technicians, and they all agree. The point is, that some valves can have the same input and output pressure, and others do not. The statement that you made about some on here, [ that valves will split ], is not what we said or I said. The word is could split or crack.

All PBY ports should take the same pressure as the input port.

A lot of things "could" happen...But they don't.

I can post links to HUNDREDS of post's about subplate mounted solenoid valves plumbed in series being used for front remotes on loaders, even some that YOU have recommended their use. Can you link to ONE post that one has cracked?:anyone:

How about backhoes? Plumbed in series on the PB line of every major manufactures machines correct?


:mur:This is all I will say about this in this thread.:2cents:

 

[kennyd]

So, now I am spooked.

See what you guy have done? :confused2:

PM me WV if you need help.

 

[J_J]

Again, with all due respect, you apparently do not read my post carefully. I believe everyone can understand what I wrote.

The valves on tractors were chosen by engineers to accomplish a set of rules. and the specs would indicate the return port pressures. They would only use what is safe to use. The average guy going out and buying the valve for the least money to suit his needs may not realize the short comings of a particular valve.

I really don't have a large amount of busted or cracked valves in my pocket at the moment, but I bet that some of the hydraulic shops have some, but how can you prove that it doesn't happen. The specs on some valves say that the return line should go to tank.

Give a little and accept known facts.

You can have the last post on this subject if you want, I really don't need the numbers .

 

[wvpolekat]

I think you are both right.

I think that it is something that needs to be considered. It is possible that in some applications, some non PB valves could be subject to failure from the back pressure created by downstream items.

So, when purchasing an addon valve with no PB port, the back pressure rating of that valve needs to be considered as well as the consequences of a failure. It is possible that additional safety measures should be taken. Particularly with a manual valve where the operators hand could be in close proximity to the valve.

Do I think that my subplate is going to fail because of back pressure? No. It's a solid chunk of steel that is WAY stronger than any of the lines. I suppose there could be something inside the solenoid that could fail. But, honestly, I am not real sure what the risk is beyond the valve failing. If I were very concerned about it from a safety aspect, I could build a shield around it. I am more concerned about the gaggle of rubber hoses around it than I am the 5 lb chunk of steel having a catastrophic failure.

J_J, your point is taken, that from a strictly by the book standpoint, my use of this valve is outside it's designed application and could result in failure of the valve.

But, I am inclined to accept that risk and use it knowing that. Primarily because there is no such thing as a solenoid valve with PB, at least not that I have found.

 

[Gordon Gould]

This has been a very good educational thread - thank you all.
It seems to me that it is better to do something that is not perfect when
you know and understand the short comings rather than doing it and not
having a clue there could be potential problems.

 

[wdchyd]

I think you are both right.


J_J, your point is taken, that from a strictly by the book standpoint, my use of this valve is outside it's designed application and could result in failure of the valve.

WVpolecat,

I don't mean to be stirring the pot, but Northman rates max backpressure @2350 here (http://www.northmanfp.com/pdf/DCVG03.pdf),that being shown in previous post #21, basically your subplate mounted valve can handle backpressure from tractors (generally 2000 - 2500 psi)...industrial valves are manufactured differently.....its your castiron FEL valve bank I'd be questioning (assuming no PB) if it was upstream...

Industrial Valves do have more "Overkill" because of application....

OK OK I'll shut up now:ashamed:

 

[wvpolekat]

The FEL valve does have PB. So, no worries there.

Nothing wrong with people speaking their concerns and knowledge. Hydraulics can be dangerous stuff and all aspects need to be considered.

 

[wvpolekat]

Was finally able to order my hoses and such. Oldest son is in the hospital and that had to come first. Hope to have them next week.

2x 1/4" X 84" 1/4 NPTM X 1/4 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE
2x 1/4" X 96" 1/4 NPTM X 1/4 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE
2x 1/4" X 72" 1/4 NPTM X 1/4 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE
1x 1/4" X 24" 1/4 NPTM X 1/4 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE
4x 1/4" NPT POPPET TYPE QUICK COUPLER
1x N400S 1/4 NPT PARKER NEEDLE VALVE
10x 3/8 NPT TO 1/4 NPT BUSHING
6x 1/4 NPTM x 1/4 NPTF 90 SWIVEL
6x 1/4 NPT HEX NIPPLE
3x 1/4 NPTM TO 1/4 NPTM 90 ELBOW
2x 1/4 NPTM x 1/4 NPTF 45 SWIVEL
3x RUBBER COVER FOR TOGGLE SWITCH
1x SWITCH COVER - YELLOW
1x SWITCH COVER - RED
1x SWITCH COVER - CARBON
3x SPDT-CO 6 AMP TOGGLE SWITCH
1x DPDT-CO 20 AMP MOMENTARY TOGGLE SWITCH
30ft #12/3 CONDUCTOR WIRE SOLD BY THE FOOT

 

[wvpolekat]

New install update with pictures:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/173772-my-grapple-build-install.html

 

[wvpolekat]

Hoses and other associated bits will be here Friday!

Unfortunately, the DPDT rocker got "lost" in shipping. Seller refunded without issue. But, I am on the hunt for another one. Luckily, I went ahead and ordered a old fashioned DPDT toggle with my surplus center order, so I have something to work with.

 

[wvpolekat]

So, I am working from my front porch today, waiting on the big brown truck with my goodies. Work is a bit slow, so I worked up a wiring diagram for the grapple and lights.

The solenoid valve is actually 2 solenoids, which simplifies things.

The light gray box represents the housing I built on top of the loader valve cover.

 

[wvpolekat]

The nice man in the big brown truck dropped off a box of hydraulic goodness!

Wife had to work this evening, so I have to watch my 2 year old helper, Xavier.

We did a quick mock up of the hoses in the living room with Barney helping. Hope I can sneak out to the garage first thing in the morning and get started. I know I will have to run get at least one adapter, but I expected that.

The fittings on the outside of the coil are the cylinder end, then in the center are the valve end. The funny looking dodad on one of them is the needle valve for flow control.

 

[wvpolekat]

More progress.....

Not sure how it happened, but our hose measurements are off by a fair amount. They are all significantly too long. Better than too short!

Anyhow, got my hoses connected to the cylinder, fittings and quick connects on the solenoid valve.

Just need to run get 2 adapters and some electrical odds and ends.

 

[ctgoldwing]

Great thread on reusables:thumbsup:

wvpolekat,

Looking forward to pics after you're done,sounds like a nice project!!!!

+1

Thanks for the post!

 

[wvpolekat]

At a standstill.

Went to three different Tractor Supply stores looking for the adapters I need. But, I got to eat a good breakfast with my favorite helper, Xavier and my wife, so it's all good.

Found a 6M JIC x 3/8 MPT adapter. Like this

But, still need a 6F JIC x 3/8 FPT adapter. Like this

Local hose shop is closed weekends, Kubota and Massey dealer didn't have it.

Going to go after the wiring in a little bit and snap some pictures.

 

[kennyd]

Looks nice WCP, keep up the good work.

 

[wvpolekat]

Few pictures. Got the hoses routed and some of the fittings assembled. Was going to work on the wiring some, but got sidetracked.

The cylinder hoses are a bit too long. Once have everything together, I will remeasure.

Closer picture of my patented hose slack retention system. Also need to build a bracket for the QDs.

A really crappy picture of where the work lines connect to the valve.

 

[wvpolekat]

Got a lot done today, just nothing on the grapple. My helper insisted on taking me to the zoo for Fathers Day. Gotta keep the help happy.

 

[wvpolekat]

Don't get me wrong, I love where I live. But, I also spent 25 years in Houston, where you could get ANYTHING easily. I finally found the fitting I need, kinda. It will actually take me 2 or 3 fittings to get there and I have to drive 2 counties away to get it. Guess it's good that I can work from the truck.