Gravel drive repair

[MasseyWV]

Can I piggy back on your thread instead of starting a new one? I have a 1/4 mile long gravel driveway that is steep in both directions. Much of it is comprised of what's locally known as rotten rock, which is decomposed granite that packs and drains well. But I have a long flat section that is all hardpan, which is pretty much like clay. Lots of fines and muddy as heck in spring. It hardens like concrete and is fine most of the year, but when the frost comes out of the ground it is a major mess (like right now). I have put crushed gravel on it and it really helps but once spring hits it is like I never put it down.

I'm thinking i need to dig out 6" of material, put down landscape fabric, then put down good processed gravel. Any other suggestions? I don't have a box blade but am thinking I could really use one.

Most of our driveway is also steep and much like your's, there is one area that is made of clay which is prone to rutting because it gets a lot of moisture in the spring.

Our solution was to place several tons of 3-4 inch crushed stone with a top layer of 57's over the area. It was a little bumpy at first, until it settled down, and it required several scrapings to smooth it out from time to time, but it has held up very well for several years.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Can you please expand on that a bit? I've wondered if that may be effective, but haven't seen anything on it. I'm up north too.

Soundguy is in Florida. He probably doesnt have enuf freeze issue to cause problems at the interface between concrete and "soil". I havent tried it because I anticipate problems at the edges of the hole due to freeze cycles. Appropriate filling and blending the hole to a homogeneous packed surface works well.
larry

 

[EddieWalker]

All right here is the project. 20 year old gravel driveway/road in Michigan still seems to have good gravel base. Did a grade best I could late fall before a little freeze. Can't have a lot of frost in it right now because it never got cold this winter. It has a lot of potholes right now. My question is best way to get rid of potholes right now without buying gravel since I don't think people are hauling yet and funds are low.
Any ideas would be welcomed

Tools I have to work with :
Hand Shovel
Hand Rake
40 hp compact tractor with loader
Box blade
Loader snow plow
Back blade
Homemade toothbar for bucket

NEVER tear up a good section of gravel to try and fix a bad area. All you accomplish is making it all a bad area.

There are a few basics that are needed for a gravel road or driveway to work properly.

First, you have to have good drainge. You have to make sure the water is going away from the road. A crown on the top and ditches on the side.

Second, you have to have enough gravel to lock together. In the South, four inches is the minimum. From what I'm told, it's quite a bit thicker. Kind of depends where you are and how cold it gets. It is NEVER less then 4 inches anywhere.

Third, the rock must be of different sizes with jagged edges from fines up to a couple inches in size.

Once compacted, the rock will form a solid surface that will shed water and support the weight of any street legal vehicle, including concrete trucks, 18 wheelers and RV's.

If it is too thin, then water will get through it and as you drive across it, you will cause it to move. Over time, this will create a pot hole.

The only way to fix a pot hole is to loosen up the gravel in that spot and fill with an inch more of gravel then was there before and compact it.

You don't need much, but you do need the right material. Most places will sell it by the yard or half yard. In my area, it will cost me $40 to have a yard dumped into the back of my pick up truck.

Again, NEVER tear up the good sections of your driveway to try and fix a bad area. Once you do this, you are now on the downward cycle of a gravel road that is falling apart. It will require constant maintenance and upkeep. When the gravel is thick enough, you will never have to touch it again. It's been 7 years since I put mine in and I've only had to fix a couple potholes. I never do anything else to it and never will.

Be carefull of the boxblade. It's a terrible tool that does a lot of things, but none very well. Just because you have it doesn't mean you should use it.

Eddie

 

[gengine]

Most gravel pits, even though they close down in the winter, have a number on the gate or office door to call if you need material. Sometimes it's in the phone book. At the pit I work at, Out road base is 3/4" minus. We have to adjust the mixture to get it up to spec. for roads, but we sell the reject (out of spec.) stuff real cheap, and for private drives, it still does a great job. The minimum charge for us is $20, or I think $7.50 a yard, and a yard is a little more than a ton. We have people come in all the time with a shovel and five gallon buckets.
On that clay part, I suggest you put down 4"of pit run, then top it with 4" of read base. Or, if they offer it, do a 6"layer of 2" minus. Over here, some parts have the type of clay that you have, and if you have the room, we put down oversize while they clay is soft, then spread the 3/4" reject over the top to make a driveway. As the clay gets softer and softer, the oversize will sink in, and 'bridge' the clay, while the 3/4" will make it nice and smooth. I think it is cheaper to rent a dump trailer and haul yourself. Our truck time is $90/hour, or truck and pup is $110/hour.

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy is in Florida. He probably doesnt have enuf freeze issue to cause problems at the interface between concrete and "soil". I havent tried it because I anticipate problems at the edges of the hole due to freeze cycles. Appropriate filling and blending the hole to a homogeneous packed surface works well.
larry

actually, even further. any time I see pot holed drives, I know the subgrade ain't perfect. thus it needs to be restabilized and compacted. if stabilizing.. might as well go with something tight like oh.. soil cement.. wix it in.. compact and go.. good base for years.. won't rut out.. etc..

 

[radair]

Thanks for the replies. I am concerned that stone or gravel will sink into the clay next spring. I think segregating the good material with a geotextile fabric would be a good idea. Any thoughts or experience with that?

 

[DKCDKC]

I have one mile of gravel road, most of it sloping and turning. I've had it for 17 years now. Soil ranged from clay in the fields to rocky mix in the forest. I put in a base of 2" rock and gravel then crusher run. I re-rocked portions annually for the first few years, now I re-coat with an inch or so every 4 or 5 years. I tend the drive with a box blade and scraper blade, occasionally borrowing a rock rake to pull rocks back and eliminate leaf build-up in forested areas.

I like the box blade, it is particularly great on hilly areas where traffic has created washboard. It also helps where water has washed gravel or cut ruts down a slope. I try to maintain a crown, but it is fleeting on most gravel roads, including state roads here. I agree, however, that you don't scrape or tend a gravel road when the soil is damp. You can tear it to pieces and bring up a ton of mud. Dry or frozen is fine.

I have - not enough - water breaks (the slow soft kind) on most slopes and they help prevent major water damage. Ditches die quickly because of the heavy leaf build up that shifts some year-round - but I do what I can.

I tried cement in a few bad potholes. Bad idea. Unless you hand dig out the pothole a foot or two before you pour, winter will push it up and your blade will snag it every time. I have found two fixes that work. I dig out the hole for a few minutes, then toss in larger stone to within a few inches of the surface, then refill with crusher run - or box blade the area. That works in most cases so the pothole never returns. In a really wet spot where the seepage seemed to want to always cross the road and create potholes, I bit the bullet and buried a drainage pipe. No more problem.

With a mile of gravel, I expect I - and those after me - will always have annual and post-heavy rain work to do on the road. It's one of the main reasons I have a tractor. But it's a lot cheaper than a mile of paving.

 

[MasseyWV]

I tried cement in a few bad potholes. Bad idea. Unless you hand dig out the pothole a foot or two before you pour, winter will push it up and your blade will snag it every time. I have found two fixes that work. I dig out the hole for a few minutes, then toss in larger stone to within a few inches of the surface, then refill with crusher run - or box blade the area. That works in most cases so the pothole never returns. In a really wet spot where the seepage seemed to want to always cross the road and create potholes, I bit the bullet and buried a drainage pipe. No more problem.

I agree that using cement or concrete to fill potholes is a bad idea, especially in cold climates, because frost heave will push it up, every time.

Several areas of my gravel driveway were prone to potholes, and it seemed that whenever I filled them they would reappear almost as quickly. My solution was to use alternating shovels full of clay soil and gravel to fill the pothole, followed by a layer of gravel on top. The clay soil acts as a stabilizer to help to hold the gravel in place, and the final layer of gravel promotes good drainage.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Thanks for the replies. I am concerned that stone or gravel will sink into the clay next spring. I think segregating the good material with a geotextile fabric would be a good idea. Any thoughts or experience with that?

Of course I dont know your ground, but your description matches what I have seen here. Undoubtedly, using fabric between clay or fines will prevent what you do above from sinking in. However, my experience is that "crusher run" emulsifies in a frost heave thaw - exactly as you describe in your problem area. I quickly decided it was a waste of money- even counterproductive. Gravel is less dense, goes further, and does not hold water and heave. It would be a cheap try, and I think a good enuf fix without the big project and expense. I use 57 gravel but you may need a heavier grade first. The main thing is to not allow ruts to develop because they hold water. And never fill a rut with gravel. A drive wide enuf that you can put a wheel anywhere on its surface allows you to drive down hi spots during natural occurring travel. About 16' wide and slight crown is all it takes. A touch up before each winter with landscape rake and a chaindrag to get gravel on top. Maybe add a little more gravel. Less and less as it stabilizes. Ive sure got bare clay under my 1mi drive and this works well for me.
larry

 

[mbrun]

I am entering into my third year using a DR Power Grader to maintain my 600' driveway straight level driveway. For me it is about a 15-20 minute project every 30-60 days. The drive develops the worst potholes in the winter (2-3" deep max) and minor ones during the warmer months (1-2). I have brought gravel in 3 times or so to top dress it. I have also broken up the holes and replaced well with tamper. Still they come back. For me the Power Grader has turned it into just a simple effortless maintenance task pulling the tractor.