GRAVEL & STONE TERMS

[WALT]

I will soon be installing approx. 500' of 4" coil drainage pipe around my house. I am inquiring for a good source for grading info to describe the local gravel and stone products availible. I want to do the job right the first time, and the local pit operators have multiple names for what appears to be the same products.
I have searched this forum, and the internet without any success. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks:
WALT

 

[Junkman]

Walt, I can't help you with the terms, but I can advise you about the drainage. I would not use the coil drain tubing, but would highly recommend that you use the PVC rigid pipe that has the holes drilled in it. I have found that the coiled drain pipe will pick up silt and have had blockages. I also live in CT and recently had done some grading to the rear yard. At one point, we broke into the old drain and to my amazement, there was no signs of silt in the pipe. I had to replace the coil drain line about 5 years ago that was used under the driveway, because it was silt blocked. Today, you can buy a tube sock that can be slipped over the pipe to eliminate all silt intrusion. I have no experience with the sock, but have seen it at Lowe's in Manchester CT. I place 8 to 12 inches of 1" crushed stone all around the pipe when I installed it back in 1982. I also put drainage inside of the footings and connected them to the outside drainage by placing larger PVC pipes in the footings before they were poured. Then I installed the connector pipes. I have no standing water around my foundation. When I did this, the foundation people thought I was crazy, but I have a dry cellar and think it was worth the small additional expense.

 

[Tonester]

Hi walt,
I found the same thing trying to buy gravel, it seems different parts of the country (or even the same state!) have different names. i ended up driving to the gravel pit and eyeballing the stuff. I was looking for a mix of fines & small (1/2") stones for my driveway and a couple other projects. The stuff I got was called "driveway gravel" - big surprise there. I did a drainage project recently and a fellow we know said the same as Junkman - drill holes in PVC, but added a wrap of landscape paper before the crushed stone. Not sure if this is a "legitimate" method, but seemed to make sense to me....

Hope that helps... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tc35dforme]

Walt, I don't really think the grade of the stone really matters. The water will seek the path of least resistance ( the open pipe ). The important thing ( as stated earlier ) is preventing fines from plugging up the stone bed and the pipe. I would recommend any type of smaller round stone. A 3/4" washed stone is great, but may be a bit expensive. The crushed stuff will usually contain too many fines.

Does your house really have a 500' perimeter ?? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[chim]

Things are confusing around here too. A number of quarries use the term "2A Modified" to describe the mix of anything that passes through a 3/4" screen. This includes dust and even a small amount of soil. Soil isn't something intentionally added to the stones, but occurs as the rim of the quarry wall is extended. This is great for backfilling/tamping excavations for utilities under blacktop and touching up established gravel driveways.

"2B" is what they call the clean 3/4" stone without the finer material. The stones are more consistent in size. Good for drainage because it doesn't have the "fines" in with the stone. Horrible for driveways and parking areas. It's like using marbles because there's not enough fines and dirt to make it stable.

There are other quarries nearby that have other terminology like "57A", etc for some of the same products. If you can have the quarry describe what's in the mix, OK. Otherwise a drive to look at the material would be worthwhile...............chim

Oh, I agree with using rigid PVC. I had to redo our underground rain leaders because the cheap 4" rolled stuff got crushed. Also, don't tie the downspouts into the foundation drains. Don't laugh. It's been done.

 

[Currmudgeon]

Talk with your county or township engineer. They can be a goldmine of information. Besides, a call from a citizen who's not complaining might give him a welcome break.

 

[Tonester]

Ha! Yet again we are naming names... At my local pit the crushed stone has no fines, just rocks in whatever size you need, that's what I meant to say! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I think it may be washed??? I made that mistake when I ordered some for a small driveway, that's why I had to come up with that drainage project! Like I said, now I just go look at it first!

 

[PaulK]

I've also had success with drilled 4" PVC in areas where inexpensive plastic pipe failed. My experience has been that even 2" stone with fines [known in NJ as QP or Quarry Process] will work well. The QP is stable and permeable. I'll tell you what I did and then tell you why I think it worked.

I dug a 12" wide & deep trench, placed 4' wide Typar landscape fabric in the bottom to keep out clay silt, raked in a 1-2" base of stone on top of the fabric, placed the PVC on top of the base, filled in with stone to about 8" depth, wrapped the landscape fabric over the stone so that it overlapped by 2" - thereby giving me a seal around the stone/QP. The fabric was then covered with another 1" of QP and finally the trench was covered with 3" of topsoil. This method drains very fast.

I did things this way because I have seen pea gravel and 2" stone silt up over time. If you've ever seen a quick driveway made by throwing stone on dirt, you find that over time the stone gets forced into the mud and up comes the clay again.

I put a driveway around my barn by digging out 12" of soil, laying down landscape fabric, and filling to grade with QP. I put the 4" PVC at the lowest point of the driveway. You would think that because the QP can become so compacted and stable that it would not drain very well. My driveway drains like magic: after the 4.3" of rain we had last week, the driveway was dry down to 12" within an hour of the rain stopping.
Part of this rapid water movement may be attributable to the fact that the QP is relatively new. However, the driveway method was chosen because I saw it work for 10 years in a friend's drainage scheme. He simply wrapped a French drain of QP in landscape fabric and solved the problem of his soggy farm driveway. After 10 years, the fabric was fine and the QP had no mud. My guess is that the heavy duty Typar is the key.

Paul

 

[WALT]

Thanks for your replies.
I went to the local pit, and viewed the stone availible.
I am going to use a combination of 3/4" & 1 1/4" crushed stone, along with the ridgid plastic pipe, vs. the coil piping.

I hope to do the project this week, and I'll post the results.
To answer the question about the 500' of pipe, the house footprint is 30' x 70', and the planned pipe runs also include 150' of driveway, and other laterals in the yard.

Thanks Again:
WALT

 

[BRL]

Paul,
Very good description of how to do it right. The only thing I will add is that the QP stone is more used for road, driveway & walkway bases. This is because it compacts well & becomes a nice solid, yet flexible base. Water does permeate throught it, but only a small percentage gets through. While your projects were succesful using that material, they would work much better using a 3\4" clean material, because more water can permeate this stone. The same installation procedures would apply as far as using the geotextile fabrics.