Greasing a B21 BH Pivot

[joea99]

While pondering what to do about a bent "thumb" (steel one), I noticed two grease point I don't recall every touching before today. The are the two on the BH pivot, which seem quite difficult to get a straight shot at as the boom seem to leave very little clearance.

I have a lock n lube coupler, extended version. Thinking of getting the shorter version as well, or maybe just getting some right angle zerks and putting them in. That is cheaper, of course, but every time I buy zerks, the seem wrong and I end up with "too many zerks". Probably I have no Right Angle ones in the last "universal" kit I bought.

Who knows the right size an who has them?

 

[Smokeydog]

I swing the boom to the side to access those zerks. Same for the swing cylinders grease points.

 

[number two]

I swing the boom to the side to access those zerks. Same for the swing cylinders grease points.

If you still want to change the zerks,they are most likely 1/4 x 28NF.
If a little larger,then 1/8 NPT would work.
Good Luck!

 

[Smokeydog]

Kubotas have been a mixed bag of different threads for grease zerks. Have good selection of assorted English and metric. Most tend to be British and frustrating. Small ones will cross with English but bigger ones will not. Hard to find a British thread assortment priced reasonably. Just buy a couple extra from the Kubota dealer. Running good grease rarely have plugging problems.

 

[rScotty]

I believe the zerks you are describing are swing pivot bushings. Right on center at the bottom of the BH? That is a Very High Stress area, so you need to get some grease in there. That's one of the few places on the TLB where I will use the dreaded moly grease.

Our M59 has at least three different zerk threads, and it's a guessing game to tell which one is a fit. Even worse, the threads are short, often buggered to start, and easily cross threaded.

Someday I am going to get a "Grease Zerk Thread Gauge". Zoro.com has what looks to be a nice one for under thirty bucks. It identifies twenty some odd different zerk threads & is made in the USA....maybe.

They also sell a plastic one from India that is more expensive. You gotta wonder why?

 

[Smokeydog]

I believe the zerks you are describing are swing pivot bushings. Right on center at the bottom of the BH? That is a Very High Stress area, so you need to get some grease in there. That's one of the few places on the TLB where I will use the dreaded moly grease.

Our M59 has at least three different zerk threads, and it's a guessing game to tell which one is a fit. Even worse, the threads are short, often buggered to start, and easily cross threaded.

Someday I am going to get a "Grease Zerk Thread Gauge". Zoro.com has what looks to be a nice one for under thirty bucks. It identifies twenty some odd different zerk threads & is made in the USA....maybe.

They also sell a plastic one from India that is more expensive. You gotta wonder why?View attachment 712124

Didn’t know there are three different thread type grease types on the M59 backhoe. I thought all Kubota loaders and backhoe are made in the states? Maybe globally sourced parts?

Might need to make my own zerk thread tester from some fittings. Might be a new tool opportunity for us orange folk.

 

[number two]

Since the most of the Kubota attachments are North American,I figure the zerks are fractional.
The Canadian snowblowers seem to be fractional as well.
The tractors are of Asian manufacture-I figure their fittings are metric.
YMMV

 

[rScotty]

Since the most of the Kubota attachments are North American,I figure the zerks are fractional.
The Canadian snowblowers seem to be fractional as well.
The tractors are of Asian manufacture-I figure their fittings are metric.
YMMV

Uh.... you may want to check your figuring on that.
The problem is that Zerks use tapered threads - and tapered self-sealing threads are a whole different thread world off by itself.

Hardly anyone uses the metric tapered thread. Yes, there is a metric tapered thread standard, but about the only place you see it used is for some - you guessed it - special zerks. For most fluid tight joints and zerks, Asian manufacturers usually prefer to use one of the British Tapered Pipe Standards. That goes for most things Asian requiring an self-sealing interference type of thread. And includes many Asian-made zerks plus most all hose and sensor fittings on Asian cast engine blocks.

Most - not all - North American manufacturers do use NTP for their zerks. But some use an oddball thread per inch spec.

Zerk specs really don't make sense. Measuring each zerk against a thread gauge is the only way to be sure.

 

[Smokeydog]

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[number two]

Uh.... you may want to check your figuring on that.
The problem is that Zerks use tapered threads - and tapered self-sealing threads are a whole different thread world off by itself.

Hardly anyone uses the metric tapered thread. Yes, there is a metric tapered thread standard, but about the only place you see it used is for some - you guessed it - special zerks. For most fluid tight joints and zerks, Asian manufacturers usually prefer to use one of the British Tapered Pipe Standards. That goes for most things Asian requiring an self-sealing interference type of thread. And includes many Asian-made zerks plus most all hose and sensor fittings on Asian cast engine blocks.

Most - not all - North American manufacturers do use NTP for their zerks. But some use an oddball thread per inch spec.

Zerk specs really don't make sense. Measuring each zerk against a thread gauge is the only way to be sure.

I apologize for my incorrect figuring!
I'm so used to seeing British Standard Pipe on the vast majority of imports,that I kind of think of them as metric.
The thread checker looks cool!

 

[Smokeydog]

Zoro tool frequently have coupons up to 30% off. Used 15% discount coupon and ordered two zerk thread gauges for $45.22. No tax and free shipping. 2nd one will be for my BIL. Now maybe I can finally get a better handle on the different types of fittings.

Have an assortment of metric zerks but have only found few import pillow block bearing they fit. None on the tractors. Similar assortment set for British threads cost 10x$. Hopefully with a gauge now can know and keep a few of the right kind on hand for replacement.

 

[Smokeydog]

From ZORO tool. Anodized aluminum plate.

Thought about trying to make something from labeled male zerk fittings. Only have a few taps used in the gauge with none of British threads popular with Kubota. I had go to Kubota and point out the fitting on a drawing at the parts counter for them to hand me a zerk in a plastic packet. They don’t even the thread size. Now maybe I can figure these out and buy cheaper.
Might not be a big issue for new tractors but I have always bought used and have had to figure out repairs. Probably one of the few negative problems on Kubota loaders and backhoes.

 

[rScotty]

View attachment 712728

From ZORO tool. Anodized aluminum plate.

Thought about trying to make something from labeled male zerk fittings. Only have a few taps used in the gauge with none of British threads popular with Kubota. I had go to Kubota and point out the fitting on a drawing at the parts counter for them to hand me a zerk in a plastic packet. They don’t even the thread size. Now maybe I can figure these out and buy cheaper.
Might not be a big issue for new tractors but I have always bought used and have had to figure out repairs. Probably one of the few negative problems on Kubota loaders and backhoes.

Smokey, I've been making some mods on the M59's foot pedal thumb control... and was surprised to find that some of the parts and pins there are imperial inch measurement rather than metric. I wonder where the BH was made?
rScotty

 

[Smokeydog]

Smokey, I've been making some mods on the M59's foot pedal thumb control... and was surprised to find that some of the parts and pins there are imperial inch measurement rather than metric. I wonder where the BH was made?
rScotty

Bought my M59 without a backhoe and took years to find one. My research found they were made in Georgia but unable to buy directly without thru a dealer.

I’m sure some parts are sourced thru Kubota and others built to their specs.

Often thought of adding a hand lever to the thumb foot pedal to help me with some fine tuning control for placing rocks. Other work the foot pedal works OK. Probably speaks more to my lack of coordination.

 

[joea99]

Wow. Thanks for all the replies. Somehow I was not subscribed to my post and thought there were no responses at all.

These fittings look like the "M10" fittings in the kit I ordered and returned to Amazon. Metric and SAE, all sorts of angles. How could I go wrong?

Easy, the threaded end was WAY off. The ones in the kit were quite "coarse", the ones in the machine are quit "fine".

Anyway, my problem is I cannot get any of the grease gun ends I have to snap on to the zerk. I even bought another Lock N Lube made for recessed fittings. It worked on the top one, popped it on and screwed down the collar and it worked great. But the bottom one, not so much. Could not lock that on the fitting, it would pop off as soon as I tried pumping grease into it. Turns out, the diameter of the "locking collar" on the LnL adapter is pretty much the same as the diameter of the recess the fitting is in. Seems the top recess is just a bit wider than the bottom one, so the adapter can get deeper.

I've tried a few things and may just try turning down the locking collar, which easily screws on and off the adapter, being careful not to lose the "ears" that grab the zerk.

 

[Smokeydog]

There are a few zerks on the EA wicked grapple whose recess in the pin is slightly too small for the lock and lube coupler. Contacted Travis at EA of the problem was told it wasn’t a big enough problem for them to simply change their CNC settings/tooling. My regular grease gun coupler works fine. Might check your local store for a different coupler first.

 

[joea99]

There are a few zerks on the EA wicked grapple whose recess in the pin is slightly too small for the lock and lube coupler. Contacted Travis at EA of the problem was told it wasn’t a big enough problem for them to simply change their CNC settings/tooling. My regular grease gun coupler works fine. Might check your local store for a different coupler first.

The problem for me is it pretty much has to be a right angle coupler as there is not enough space to tackle it straight on. And those that just "push on" are pretty hard to get on and off, I imagine, for the same reason. My fingers and hands are not young anymore.

As far a EA goes, how hard can it be to make a couple of changes to a CNC program? Especially since it is all "in house". I have a little (just a little) exposure to CAD and, seems to me, all you have to do is change the diameter spec and regenerate the CNC machine files. If the CNC stuff is connected to the CAD platform, maybe even easier. Maybe they farm out that part?

I'd have thought it simple to just change the zerk to a 45 degree fitting, but even that seems to be a buy one try one thing. Just irritating.

 

[Smokeydog]

Don’t recall any trouble with the B20 or current B26 fittings except for a few that were sheared off. Again dealer or British pipe thread supplier. Be hard to match or change to an angle fitting without knowing the thread type. Just a few of us seem to be having this issue. I know I have forced and cross threaded SAE a few times to keep working. Works but not really how I like to roll.

Surprised at EA response. But even with Kubota the salespersons are the point of contact not engineering or production. Opportunity for their competitors.

 

[joea99]

Just to follow up, I unscrewed the cap on the right angle Lock N Lube adapter, chucked it in a mini lath and increased the "chamfer" (or bevel) on the zerk end, cutting down the diameter so it could fit down a bit further in the recess and it worked fine.

 

[rScotty]

Fitting out some zerks for the old JD today. Thanks to SmokeyDog I ordered a thread gauge from ZORO last year about this time.
Looks like there at least 3 different thread sizes on the tractor...maybe more. Nothing Metric or British so far.
Not sure just what the difference is between 1/8 NPT and 1/8 THRD FORM.
rScotty

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