Bird
Rest in Peace
wushaw said:
And I never heard a tank called a pond, in Texas or Oklahoma until I was grown. "Ponds" were just something you read about in English class in school.
Great Board! questions...
- Thread starter CTW
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And I never heard a tank called a pond, in Texas or Oklahoma until I was grown. "Ponds" were just something you read about in English class in school.
Well I must say there are some great replies and info given here on this site and I thank everyone for their responses. I certain feel comfortable asking all sorts of dumb questions now so be prepared! TexasJohn, I do want to hear your choice of herbicide for mesquite/huisache as I do believe this is the only way to go, I just don't want to kill any good trees. I grew up watching various ways of dealing with this problem from mowing (bad idea) to dragging ship chain between two dozers,all with different degrees of success. As far as the "tank" goes it's called a stock tank which is dug soley to water your stock. Over the years, they have morphed into custom ag/hunting/kid fishing purposes. I would just be damming off a gully that acts as a run off through my place so it would make a nice long finger pond.
Soundguy
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With 150 ac.. I'd go minimum 50 hp.. If you have to do alot of mowing.. you want to be able to pull a 10' mower or better.. unless you have problems with obstacles.
None of the brands you mentioned will be a problem. I'd reccomend going and test driving all of them.
If you are going to be doing substantial FEL work.. then look into something better than a plain gear tranny. Perhaps a shuttle.. or HST.. though you may find it harder to get the HST on the larger tractors.. etc.
Don't overlook low hour returns at your dealer. Sometimes peopl ebuy a tractor.. get the wrong size, and use it a year or so.. then trade it in.. You can benefit from their mistake in the terms of price reduction. This is especially true in the case of a low year/hour unit that still has some factory warranty on it left. get it.. use it.. see if there are any warranty issues that need to be addressed, and then smile at the big discount you got.
That said.. you may get a better interest rate on a new unit.. so weigh all your options..
Soundguy
None of the brands you mentioned will be a problem. I'd reccomend going and test driving all of them.
If you are going to be doing substantial FEL work.. then look into something better than a plain gear tranny. Perhaps a shuttle.. or HST.. though you may find it harder to get the HST on the larger tractors.. etc.
Don't overlook low hour returns at your dealer. Sometimes peopl ebuy a tractor.. get the wrong size, and use it a year or so.. then trade it in.. You can benefit from their mistake in the terms of price reduction. This is especially true in the case of a low year/hour unit that still has some factory warranty on it left. get it.. use it.. see if there are any warranty issues that need to be addressed, and then smile at the big discount you got.
That said.. you may get a better interest rate on a new unit.. so weigh all your options..
Soundguy
CTW said:
wushaw
Elite Member
One herbicide for Mesquite trees is Remedy mixed with Diesel, my neighbor uses it with success.
Here is a link with some good info, scroll down to how to beat Mesquite.http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/sculptor/5.htm
Here is a link with some good info, scroll down to how to beat Mesquite.http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/sculptor/5.htm
3RRL
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With 150 ac.. I'd go minimum 50 hp.. If you have to do alot of mowing.. you want to be able to pull a 10' mower or better.. unless you have problems with obstacles.
I'd go with what Soundguy and some others have said. Go at least 50hp for your spread. I have a much smaller parcel (27 acres) and originally was looking in the 30 to 35hp range. Probably would have done 90% of what I needed to do and maintain on a regular basis. I ended up with 55hp because I felt there might be a need for some extra power...boy, was I ever right!
I can tell you there were at least 10 situations in just the last 8 months where a smaller tractor would not have done what I did. I could barely do them with my tractor. They would have required renting or calling my road guy to come out with his large equipment (and his rate is expensive) to accomplish those specific tasks. I figure I've been paid back already by saving those extra charges vs the extra I paid for a larger tractor. I realize property size is not the only factor in choosing tractor size, lots of other reasons come into play...which in my case, is why I chose to buy larger. I often wish I had even more hp...it would be just as much fun and I could kill more dirt with it.
I'd go with what Soundguy and some others have said. Go at least 50hp for your spread. I have a much smaller parcel (27 acres) and originally was looking in the 30 to 35hp range. Probably would have done 90% of what I needed to do and maintain on a regular basis. I ended up with 55hp because I felt there might be a need for some extra power...boy, was I ever right!
I can tell you there were at least 10 situations in just the last 8 months where a smaller tractor would not have done what I did. I could barely do them with my tractor. They would have required renting or calling my road guy to come out with his large equipment (and his rate is expensive) to accomplish those specific tasks. I figure I've been paid back already by saving those extra charges vs the extra I paid for a larger tractor. I realize property size is not the only factor in choosing tractor size, lots of other reasons come into play...which in my case, is why I chose to buy larger. I often wish I had even more hp...it would be just as much fun and I could kill more dirt with it.
texasjohn
Super Member
wushaw pointed you in the right direction re mesquite.. use the Brush Busters formula... they have a pamphlet that can be downloaded from the net with details, etc...
Fear not using either REMEDY or RECLAIM. I have used both with much greater success that noted below... more like 95%.
I use hand spray application. Reclaim is a foliar spray.. be SURE to wet ALL leaves... any twigs you miss WILL live... and seem to be connected to their own special root. I go thru the mesquite patch several times a year and "re do" those that for some reason got missed, or only half sprayed in spite of my best efforts. I've gone from applying 1000 gallons of spray mix annually to 30 this year.
I am now down to the annual crop of sprouts from seeds. There was an A&M study that planted mesquite beans in sterile soil and provided good growing conditions. They pulled each sprouted bean... 15 years later they were still pulling new sprouts... tenacious stuff!!!
I have sprayed Reclaim into a mesquite tree with brambles growing in it... and a hackberry bush imbedded in it.... 2 weeks later the mesquite leaves were all withered/dead but the bramble was shining green in the mesquite twigs and hackberry was 100% healthy... grass underneath OK as well... although there does seem to be some inhibiting of weeds/broomweed where the spray drifts to ground around the plant.
Remedy is sprayed completely around the trunk of small smooth bark trees.
In theory, Reclaim is best in late spring early summer.
I'd study the literature, look at the calendar, look at your size of trees and density and application capability, then choose the one that best fits YOU. I have had fine results spraying reclaim in early fall. For some reason, I tend to use Reclaim more than Remedy but have no scientific reason for it.
In my opinion, knowing your territory, I don't think you can affort to NOT spray mesquite, regardless of cost.
CTW, go 50hp or better if you can, hydrostatic transmission if you can, tooth bar on FEL, at least 2 remotes in rear, lights to rear, cab... gosh! it's fun to spendsomebody else's money If you have some BIG mesquites, PM me.
This is what Brush Busters says:
----------------
How to beat mesquite
The Brush Busters "How to Beat Mesquite" program promotes only two "select" treatments for controlling mesquite (McGinty and Ueckert 1995). One is a "stem spray" containing 15 or 25% Remedy herbicide in a diesel fuel carrier. The second is a "leaf spray" containing 1/2% Reclaim herbicide + 1/2% Remedy herbicide. Results from the large demonstration/research plots treated in 1995 showed the following:
1) The stem spray method (l5% Remedy + 85% diesel fuel) was capable of treating up to about 300 mesquite/acre before approaching the cost and quantity of herbicide applied using the most effective broadcast aerial treatments. Cost per mesquite plant treated averaged 11 cents (range 6 to 15 cents). Cost per acre averaged $18.50 (range $6.20 to $25/acre). The average mesquite density was 196/acre (range 43 to 327/acre).
2) The leaf spray method treated over 400 mesquite/acre before reaching this same threshold. Cost per mesquite plant treated averaged 8.2 cents (range 5 to 15 cents). Cost per acre averaged $l6.76 (range $6.80 to $34.20/acre). The average mesquite density was 244/acre (range 45 to 461/acre).
3)Mesquite rootkill after 2 years averaged 80% for the leaf spray and 80% for the stem spray.
Fear not using either REMEDY or RECLAIM. I have used both with much greater success that noted below... more like 95%.
I use hand spray application. Reclaim is a foliar spray.. be SURE to wet ALL leaves... any twigs you miss WILL live... and seem to be connected to their own special root. I go thru the mesquite patch several times a year and "re do" those that for some reason got missed, or only half sprayed in spite of my best efforts. I've gone from applying 1000 gallons of spray mix annually to 30 this year.
I am now down to the annual crop of sprouts from seeds. There was an A&M study that planted mesquite beans in sterile soil and provided good growing conditions. They pulled each sprouted bean... 15 years later they were still pulling new sprouts... tenacious stuff!!!
I have sprayed Reclaim into a mesquite tree with brambles growing in it... and a hackberry bush imbedded in it.... 2 weeks later the mesquite leaves were all withered/dead but the bramble was shining green in the mesquite twigs and hackberry was 100% healthy... grass underneath OK as well... although there does seem to be some inhibiting of weeds/broomweed where the spray drifts to ground around the plant.
Remedy is sprayed completely around the trunk of small smooth bark trees.
In theory, Reclaim is best in late spring early summer.
I'd study the literature, look at the calendar, look at your size of trees and density and application capability, then choose the one that best fits YOU. I have had fine results spraying reclaim in early fall. For some reason, I tend to use Reclaim more than Remedy but have no scientific reason for it.
In my opinion, knowing your territory, I don't think you can affort to NOT spray mesquite, regardless of cost.
CTW, go 50hp or better if you can, hydrostatic transmission if you can, tooth bar on FEL, at least 2 remotes in rear, lights to rear, cab... gosh! it's fun to spendsomebody else's money
If you have some BIG mesquites, PM me.This is what Brush Busters says:
----------------
How to beat mesquite
The Brush Busters "How to Beat Mesquite" program promotes only two "select" treatments for controlling mesquite (McGinty and Ueckert 1995). One is a "stem spray" containing 15 or 25% Remedy herbicide in a diesel fuel carrier. The second is a "leaf spray" containing 1/2% Reclaim herbicide + 1/2% Remedy herbicide. Results from the large demonstration/research plots treated in 1995 showed the following:
1) The stem spray method (l5% Remedy + 85% diesel fuel) was capable of treating up to about 300 mesquite/acre before approaching the cost and quantity of herbicide applied using the most effective broadcast aerial treatments. Cost per mesquite plant treated averaged 11 cents (range 6 to 15 cents). Cost per acre averaged $18.50 (range $6.20 to $25/acre). The average mesquite density was 196/acre (range 43 to 327/acre).
2) The leaf spray method treated over 400 mesquite/acre before reaching this same threshold. Cost per mesquite plant treated averaged 8.2 cents (range 5 to 15 cents). Cost per acre averaged $l6.76 (range $6.80 to $34.20/acre). The average mesquite density was 244/acre (range 45 to 461/acre).
3)Mesquite rootkill after 2 years averaged 80% for the leaf spray and 80% for the stem spray.
JoeinTX
Platinum Member
You're getting reliable info here, CTW.
As for the tractor, any of the makers you mentioned as being nearby are reliable and make good equipment. Too many "Newbies" (no offense intended think that they've got to get a John Deere.....almost like a status symbol.....when they generally aren't any better or worse than anyone else. Mahindra is fine, Kubota a wonderful reputation, NH is perfectly fine, etc. I would also suggest nothing less than 45hp and preferrably in the 50+hp range considering all of the things you might encounter on 150 acres.
For brush control, I will share our own recipe in addition to the above. Remedy is a great killing tool but pricey. We generally use a mix of 1 pint Remedy, 1 qt. Grazon P+D, and 1 qt. of generic dishwashing liquid to a 55 gallon drum on a tractor driven by a PTO pump. Diesel was mentioned above and it is a killer, but it is also an adherent "sticking" the mixture to the leaves/stems of the plant. Due to diesel's messiness and price, we use the dish soap as an adherent and it works fine. Grazon P+D is a weed killer by design, but in conjunction with the Remedy, the mixture will kill anything it is applied to and it is a cheaper chemical to buy as well. Mesquite, cedar, jubue, briars.......it kills it all. But, as stated above, you must cover the entire plant/tree leaves and bark as untreated areas will continue to live.
As for the issue of "tanks", they've always been tanks to me but I grew up in a rural farm/ranch area. As Bird stated above a "pond" is a small, mossy, lilly-pad invested body of water created for personal enjoyment and for the ducks in Eastern backyards. The origination of the term "tank" here comes from the oil boom days of the Teens and Twenties when simple dirt "holding tanks" were dug at well sites for holding oil, salt water, etc. They were generally dug by mule and dirt-pan (fresno) in the very same fashion as ranchers were just beginning to do for their livestock, so, the term tank or dirt-tank caught on for any situation where someone was digging a holding tank for any reason. I've noticed that in rural areas they are known as "tanks", but, in urban areas they are called "ponds".......but they just don't know any better
I'll shut-up now........ Hope this helps.
As for the tractor, any of the makers you mentioned as being nearby are reliable and make good equipment. Too many "Newbies" (no offense intended
think that they've got to get a John Deere.....almost like a status symbol.....when they generally aren't any better or worse than anyone else. Mahindra is fine, Kubota a wonderful reputation, NH is perfectly fine, etc. I would also suggest nothing less than 45hp and preferrably in the 50+hp range considering all of the things you might encounter on 150 acres. For brush control, I will share our own recipe in addition to the above. Remedy is a great killing tool but pricey. We generally use a mix of 1 pint Remedy, 1 qt. Grazon P+D, and 1 qt. of generic dishwashing liquid to a 55 gallon drum on a tractor driven by a PTO pump. Diesel was mentioned above and it is a killer, but it is also an adherent "sticking" the mixture to the leaves/stems of the plant. Due to diesel's messiness and price, we use the dish soap as an adherent and it works fine. Grazon P+D is a weed killer by design, but in conjunction with the Remedy, the mixture will kill anything it is applied to and it is a cheaper chemical to buy as well. Mesquite, cedar, jubue, briars.......it kills it all. But, as stated above, you must cover the entire plant/tree leaves and bark as untreated areas will continue to live.
As for the issue of "tanks", they've always been tanks to me but I grew up in a rural farm/ranch area. As Bird stated above a "pond" is a small, mossy, lilly-pad invested body of water created for personal enjoyment and for the ducks in Eastern backyards. The origination of the term "tank" here comes from the oil boom days of the Teens and Twenties when simple dirt "holding tanks" were dug at well sites for holding oil, salt water, etc. They were generally dug by mule and dirt-pan (fresno) in the very same fashion as ranchers were just beginning to do for their livestock, so, the term tank or dirt-tank caught on for any situation where someone was digging a holding tank for any reason. I've noticed that in rural areas they are known as "tanks", but, in urban areas they are called "ponds".......but they just don't know any better
I'll shut-up now........ Hope this helps.
JerryG
Super Member
Different areas have different lingo. In this area, if you say something about a tank you will be ask how many gallon and which welder you are going to use. If you say a pond, they know it is for cattle.Bird said:And I never heard a tank called a pond, in Texas or Oklahoma until I was grown. "Ponds" were just something you read about in English class in school.
ToddW
Silver Member
JerryG said:
And around here no matter what you call it it probably has gators in it
/Todd
Super replies, thanks guys! One thing I've noticed is a common threadabout brush control and that indicates the use of Remedy and Grazon P+D among others. For some reason I thought you had to have some kind of license to purchase some of these products as they were covered under certain EPA or USDA regs not sure though. If I could root plow certain sections of this place I would but then you're talking about a different class of horsepower and implements, not really cost effective unless I was going into business myself! I do have alot of brush that can be effectively removed and controlled through herbicides if I can just get my hands on the right combo. The 70hp class does seem more to my liking and have not ruled out the possibility of a "cab" even though I used to laugh at those guys who had them when I was alot younger, now the thought of fighting grass allergies, hornets and the knife job I get at the skin doc every 6 months don't seem as fun as they used to.
