Great work "poster"

[Doughknob]

I would feel like the Chinese cook if the govt told me they were going to forgive my college loans (would think something was up. Just dont see it happening)

 

[aczlan]

$15 an hour.

Around here they start at that, if you show up on time and act like you want to be there you'll get a raise.

Aaron Z

 

[GeneV]

Why all the hostility towards education? I'm glad my Dr., Nurse, Accountant, and Computer Engineers have the requisite education. I wouldn't put someone on a $1M CNC Machine Tool without the requisite education. That doesn't make you a better person. The home health aids that cared for my 98 year old mother were among the most caring and generous people I know.

My father dropped out of school in the 8th grade when his father died. He ran the family farm (with horses) to support family, and saw to it that they all graduated from high school. He was one of the wisest people I ever knew. Millionaires were proud to call him friend.

Education doesn't make you better, but it can be a great hand up out of poverty. My heart aches for those folks who worked where their daddy did, and no longer have a job. and no prospects. Instead of turning to education, they turn to opiates, alcohol and domestic abuse. Apparently it's easier to embrace victim-hood than to make an effort to change your destiny.

I got absolutely nothing against education, and yes obviously we need learned professionals in all fields. It's the drive to push all kids into uni's that seems wacky, with a big chunk of them going into "studies" programs.

 

[MossRoad]

https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I admittedly haven't read all of this thread, but would like to make one point. The government/universities are in the process of pricing an education beyond the reach of the average American. When I started college, my tuition was $5.25 per hour; I was making $1.25 per hour checking groceries, and maybe as much as $2.00 doing construction work. Tuition at the same University today, is $267 per hour for residents.

When I started law school in 1976, my tuition at a private university was $75.00 per hour, or $1500 per year; for 4 years, $6000. I was making about $25,000 per year. The cost now is $68,000 per year, full time, X 3 years is $204, 000.

I had to borrow money for law school, but undergrad I was able to work evenings, weekends and Summers and pay tuition, books, fees and gasoline for commuting as I went.

 

[orezok]

Before retiring I was a school district Facilities Project Manager building schools for a medium size district. Our board believed that EVERY student should go to college and designed programs to reflect that.

Being a Prevailing wage state for government work, I sat there and watched wages that were from $40 to $80 per hour for unskilled laborers through overtime rates for operating engineers and other skilled trades.

Many made 6 figure incomes.

I often wondered that when the board approved contracts for a $105M high school that they were paying “college unschooled” workers that amount of money.

Never made sense to me.

Example of Prevailing wage determination.

 

[MossRoad]

I admittedly haven't read all of this thread, but would like to make one point. The government/universities are in the process of pricing an education beyond the reach of the average American. When I started college, my tuition was $5.25 per hour; I was making $1.25 per hour checking groceries, and maybe as much as $2.00 doing construction work. Tuition at the same University today, is $267 per hour for residents.

When I started law school in 1976, my tuition at a private university was $75.00 per hour, or $1500 per year; for 4 years, $6000. I was making about $25,000 per year. The cost now is $68,000 per year, full time, X 3 years is $204, 000.

I had to borrow money for law school, but undergrad I was able to work evenings, weekends and Summers and pay tuition, books, fees and gasoline for commuting as I went.

Purdue University tuition is $10K per year.
Purdue University Forty Wayne campus tuition is $8800 per year.
Indiana University tuition is $11,300 per year.
Indiana University South Bend campus tuition is $7800 per year.

I only listed these two, but there are quite a few state colleges and universities in Indiana.

Room and board not included in any.

I note the remote campus tuition costs because, at least on our state, many state colleges and universities have remote campuses in all corners of the state. That makes access easier, as you can live at home and commute short distance.

Note the IUSB price of $7800.
$7.50 an hour flipping burgers 20 hours a week for 52 weeks a year = $7800.

College education is still very affordable for most degrees, at least in Indiana.

Between good grades, merit scholarships, and working while you are in school, you can get out with a monthly debt smaller than most car payments.

 

[MossRoad]

And one more thing... 529 college savings plans.

When our 2nd child was born, 5 years after the 1st, we started 529 college savings plans for both of them. We put in $20 per pay period to each (paid every other week). By the time the 1st one started college, they had about $10K in there. By starting 5 years sooner on the 2nd child, that one had around $18K at start of college. (in the interest of fairness to the kids, we made up the missing $8K on the end for the 2nd child).

If you start when the kid is born, at just $20 every other week, we covered 2 years of tuition before the kid even started college.

And, the 529 can be used for tuition, books, housing and other things. It can also pay for tech and vocational school, not just "college".

I'd earn any young person thinking about having children, or if you already have young children, seriously look into 529 college savings plans.

 

[JDZ735M]

I admittedly haven't read all of this thread, but would like to make one point. The government/universities are in the process of pricing an education beyond the reach of the average American. When I started college, my tuition was $5.25 per hour; I was making $1.25 per hour checking groceries, and maybe as much as $2.00 doing construction work. Tuition at the same University today, is $267 per hour for residents.

When I started law school in 1976, my tuition at a private university was $75.00 per hour, or $1500 per year; for 4 years, $6000. I was making about $25,000 per year. The cost now is $68,000 per year, full time, X 3 years is $204, 000.

I had to borrow money for law school, but undergrad I was able to work evenings, weekends and Summers and pay tuition, books, fees and gasoline for commuting as I went.

It's a great way to get the college students hooked on government benefits right at the start of their working life so they will always be dependent.

 

[Cougsfan]

I see a lot of apple and oranges comparisons in this thread.

The simple truth is their is a severe shortage of skilled trade workers as well service workers, I think that is because their is a lack of emphasis on those kind of jobs in our education systems and because much of society wrongfully sees people in those trades as sort of second class. I think some of that is also due to it is easier for young people to set in front of a computer and pretend you are contributing to society rather than getting off their hind end and burn some calories by actually doing something.

At the same time we definitely need people with college degrees, but not as many as we make and with the particular degrees that they are earning. It is so common to see a person with History degree working as a waitress (my daughter for instance). Too many people are getting degrees in English, Communications, Arts, History, Social Sciences, and can't even find a job where their degree applies after graduation. This runs up debt that has no value. At the same time there is a shortage of people getting their degrees in Engineering, Medicine and the various Sciences.

On top of that, the quality of education needs improved at all levels. I have always maintained that we need to pay teachers what lawyers earn, and lawyers what teachers earn based on their contribution to society. If we paid teachers adequately, the competition for those jobs would increase and the quality would improve dramatically.

 

[Helogabals]

Little view from side

First of all - to me tuition fees in US universities seems ridiculous. They has to be adjusted. I can agree, that college degree is not for everybody, young folks has to be motivated to go trough school. But come on, not 100k

Other than that, IMHO EU system seems somehow more logical.
Here government defines priorities and pay for certain number of students.
Those priorities are always the same - medicine, teachers, engineering, etc. Student just have to "successful" (IDK correct word, basically he has to pass all the exams). If student fails at exam, next year he have to pay. But doors to budget quota remains open.
In some EU countries if there is not enough local students, foreign students can qualify for "budget quote" too. Even those, non-EU residents. Student just have to take care of his own living costs. But if he shines with his grades, even that could be covered.

We here are not so big communists, non-EU citizens have to pay their tuition. If I am not wrong, Indians pay like 3.000 €/year for engineering studies

If young person wants to study anything, what gov doesn't find important for socium, like "queer cats behavior" s/he is free to do so, but at his own costs at full price.

Might be that to you EU system seems little "communist", but that is way, how to find and put on right tracks those with bright heads, but not with so fortunate parents.

 

[Torvy]

@Cougsfan , I understand you heart is in the right place, but as a teacher, I would say you are wrong. More pay will mean more teachers who look at the profession as a payday rather than a calling. You would get even a higher percentage of bad teachers.

If you really want to make education better, make it simple. Get rid of 90% of the administration. Most of those roles are there to track state and federal mandates in a vain attempt to take unequally gifted children and make their education the same. We spend an inordinate amount of resources on those who benefit the least from the schooling. Instead of giving each student the best education for them, we force them all into the same box and when it doesn't work, we add a layer of administration and dollars to 'fix' it.

We cannot address many problems because of the perception that it is not fair. Most of the students are good, but they suffer because we cannot discipline those who cause problems. We cannot even separate them because the law requires the 'least restrictive environment'.
If it were up to me, HS teachers would need a minimum of 5 years of work in a non-academic environment after college before being considered. Too much disconnect exists between academia and the real world.

 

[JethroB]

I got my BBA 40 years ago. I had to move a considerable distance in the early 80’s to find desirable work in my field. No regrets. I have since retired back to my rural hometown. When kids here ask me about schooling choices I first ask “where do you intend to live?”
A friend’s son went off to a an excellent & expensive college and returned here with a degree in architecture. He sells insurance. That really ticks his dad off as he paid for that diploma.

 

[Torvy]

I got my BBA 40 years ago. I had to move a considerable distance in the early 80’s to find desirable work in my field. No regrets. I have since retired back to my rural hometown. When kids here ask me about schooling choices I first ask “where do you intend to live?”
A friend’s son went off to a an excellent & expensive college and returned here with a degree in architecture. He sells insurance. That really ticks his dad off as he paid for that diploma.

The lesson here is let kids pay their own way. I see a lot of parents who force, needle, cajole, their kids into a 'good' major and enforce it because mom and dad are paying. Maybe the kid never wanted to be an architect? Lots of kids in pre-med and pre-law trying to make parents happy and keep $ flowing.

 

[MossRoad]

The lesson here is let kids pay their own way. I see a lot of parents who force, needle, cajole, their kids into a 'good' major and enforce it because mom and dad are paying. Maybe the kid never wanted to be an architect? Lots of kids in pre-med and pre-law trying to make parents happy and keep $ flowing.

From another point of view, I have a relative that wants to be a veterinarian. There are only something like 29 accredited vet schools in the country. None are affordable to average people. If your life calling is to be a veterinarian, and you have to pay for it yourself, you're going into large debt. That's all there is to it.

 

[Torvy]

From another point of view, I have a relative that wants to be a veterinarian. There are only something like 29 accredited vet schools in the country. None are affordable to average people. If your life calling is to be a veterinarian, and you have to pay for it yourself, you're going into large debt. That's all there is to it.

My daughter the nurse wanted to be a vet. Then she figured out that she was not wired academically to handle the program. Had school been 'free' she probably would have spent a bunch of other people's money to learn that she didn't have the chops for it.

Not everyone who is called is able.

I know a bunch of kids on scholarship at TAMU, one of those 29 schools. Those are mostly needs based, but some academic as well. Vets also make good money, so paying loans back is not too bad.

 

[MossRoad]

My daughter the nurse wanted to be a vet. Then she figured out that she was not wired academically to handle the program. Had school been 'free' she probably would have spent a bunch of other people's money to learn that she didn't have the chops for it.

Not everyone who is called is able.

I know a bunch of kids on scholarship at TAMU, one of those 29 schools. Those are mostly needs based, but some academic as well. Vets also make good money, so paying loans back is not too bad.

Veterinarians don't make that good of money to pay back those loans. One of my kids, whose married to the vet student, worked at a vet clinic for 4-5 years during high school and college. They had a couple of young vets. They told us that they will have that loan for a long, long time, just like taxes, utility bills, mortgage, etc. They said the only way to deal with it is to just consider the debt a part of your life.

Most of the older vets went to school when costs were a lot more reasonable as compared to today. Many young vets hope to buy out an old vet's practice. And even more are buying them, then selling them to a corporation, so that they can continue to practice vet medicine without the financial burden of owning the office. The corporation provides them a place to practice.

 

[kenmbz]

Another problems is automated recruiting systems used at medium to large firms.
If you don't have a degree the system rejects your resume and that's the end of the process.

 

[JDZ735M]

HS teachers would need a minimum of 5 years of work in a non-academic environment after college before being considered. Too much disconnect exists between academia and the real world.

That makes a lot of sense. But too many may not come back to teaching. Could be a double edged sword.