Grey Or Black Market

[gary1611]

Having recently Aquired a "grey" market yanmar 1300d prompted me to do some
research on the net. And I found some articles that say it is illegal to import them and that custom have been trained in spotting them Truth or lie.
http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/4676
http://www.hcoa.com.au/kubota.htm
http://www.yanmar.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13&CATEGORY_ID=
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2550/is_200409/ai_n7351786

 

[LMTC]

What?

What are you talking about? You say you have a Yanmar 1300, yet two of your articles are about Kubota, one is a notice from Yanmar that says nothing about "illegal" and the fourth is about trade dress infringement which again has nothing to do with a Yanmar 1300D. Is your purpose to stir the pot?

 

[mark777]

Gary,

I've been reading the same (nearly verbatim) factory warnings for 4 years. I believe the manufacturers have a legitimate complaint with trademark infringements where dealers and importers try to pass these tractors off as anything more than used. Primarily stating the untruth that 'A Yanmar, Kubota, Shiabura etc'. grey market tractor can be serviced and parts are available at any dealer ship. These unscrupulous people lie and keep perpetuating the most negative side of any grey market machine.

An honest dealer, importer or parts supplier NEVER says you can get this tractor serviced anywhere and parts are available over the counter from the local dealer. The moment someone is interested in one of my tractors, I make it a point to discuss this very topic first. Let them know how popular the model is, where to get parts if that is a concern, and explain the differences....if they are still interested that's fine, and if they are not, that's ok too.

As far as the market ever slowing down, I don't see it happening...ever. There is too much of a demand for low hour, cheap, used Japanese tractors that are 20+ years old but still very reliable and with simple maintenance will operate nearly trouble free for another 20 Years. For those that still feel that grey market tractors are somehow shady or an underhanded business practice, and would rather have a Ford New Holland, Deere or Massey (and can afford it) that's great. Actually if the model is near in size and weight, if you open the hood there is very little difference anyway.

Mark

 

[gary1611]

What are you talking about? You say you have a Yanmar 1300, yet two of your articles are about Kubota, one is a notice from Yanmar that says nothing about "illegal" and the fourth is about trade dress infringement which again has nothing to do with a Yanmar 1300D. Is your purpose to stir the pot?

Why are you always so Quick To jump In on things like this and you do so in a very negative way. I'm sorry that i may have offended you. You may be a great guy in person. And may be of great integrity. Your post do not show that. Your post are More than not combative. And they certainley Are not done in a bussines like way. Therefore i would personaly not do bussines with your because of your postings. You can't even get me in the door. Do you care? probaly not. But i doub't i'm alone. I say this to help and not hurt you. People that deal with you say your great. Show that in your postings. Or not. But if You wish to continue In the post that i started (if it continues) i ask that you do it in a friendly manner. thankyou

Now on with my post. Thankyou mark My Question Is not about the 1300d or kubota or any other brand. I just chose to post it here This forum seems to be full of knowlegable people Including (ltmc). I just wanted to know what our goverment was saying about this and if they were really Checking shipments at the port. Those were just the shortest links i found there are many more. Just don't know how to use this new forum yet. I think importing grey market
tractors is a good thing provided buyers know what they are getting into. I was asking becuase if the usa companys with there big money get there way.
It could affect parts availabilty. And i love tractors and machinery And would like the opportunity to own more greys. You know how the goverment loves to get in our everyday lives. This is not a problem with just tractors the goverment keeps us from a lot of good things. But thats for another day.
I just wanted the truth. Are they or are they not. Being that i have A grey yanmar i chose to ask this Question here. If its the wrong forum let me know.
Thankyou

 

[gary1611]

? rephrased. Does it look like the goverment is going to jump in And put a end to this because of usa tractor manufacture's. I hope not especialy for those honest
folks that make a living at it. thankyou

 

[scrinch]

The suits brought by Kubota, Yanmar, and Deere were against particular individuals and organizations for importing foreign-market equipment. Thus the judgements applied to only those defendants...not to anyone else. However the judgements did not appear to to have been defendant specific...i.e. Yanmar could probably win a similar suit against any Gray Market Yanmar importer, not just Wallace. Wallace just happened to be one of the larger importers and so a convenient target. I don't know how his Zen-Noh US trademark fits in. So I think you ask a good question. If Wallace is found to be infringing on Yanmar's trademark by importing Japanese Yanmar tractors, why is it that you and I (if we import Japanese Yanmars) are not? Is it like jaywalking laws...on the books but not high enough priority to enforce?

 

[LMTC]

Why are you always so Quick To jump In on things like this

Very simply because I have a low tolerance for aspersions, inuendo, half-truths, and so on. You toss out a title (Black Market) and tie it to the grey market and then list as supposed support very old material that is, for the most part, related to actions that have nothing to do with the importation or sale of grey market Yanmar tractors. If you have an honest question and ask it without predisposing the question (for me the black market reference was over the top), you will likely find I will give an honest answer if I know the answer. Likewise I will respond to aspersions, inuendo, etc. Nothing in the links you listed supports your statement that it is "illegal to import them" in reference to Yanmars. Why do you write that?

You acquired a grey market Yanmar 1300D and then found articles saying it is illegal to import them. Can't get past that one. It's just plain wrong and you do damage to a valid marketplace with such mis-statements.

 

[LMTC]

However the judgements did not appear to to have been defendant specific...i.e. Yanmar could probably win a similar suit against any Gray Market Yanmar importer, not just Wallace. Wallace just happened to be one of the larger importers and so a convenient target. I don't know how his Zen-Noh US trademark fits in. So I think you ask a good question. If Wallace is found to be infringing on Yanmar's trademark by importing Japanese Yanmar tractors, why is it that you and I (if we import Japanese Yanmars) are not? Is it like jaywalking laws...on the books but not high enough priority to enforce?

Sigh......Yanmar did NOT win a suit against Wallace. Where do you come up with this? Wallace signed a consent decree, meaning he chose to settle and not to let it go to trial. Thus Wallace was NOT found to be infringing on Yanmar's trademark. He voluntarily agreed to say so and to cease any involvement with the grey market Yanmars.

 

[gary1611]

The first Rule to a good speech is to open with a attention getting line. I apparently did a good job at that as far as one poster is concerned. A settlment is basically a win especially to the plaintif. It is fortinate that they did not go to court as it definetly Would of had a impact on the gray market. Call it what you may but yanmar got what it wanted. It is far cheaper to settle out of court then to go to court ask any lawyer that one. Ask anybody thats been sued for that matter. Was this extortion possibly. But most of the time the entity with the most money wins these suits. Yes this could be brought to even the smallest dealer. And the dealer would be forced out of business. Look at ebay. One Of the lawyers i work with won a suit against john deere. The suit was because the tractor rolled over on a guy. It did not have a rollbar, It was Older than the goverment requirement for a roll bar. John Deere Took it to the PA supreme court and lost. This paved the way for other like suits. What does this have to do with this topic. Alot Just think about it especial dealers. Article one says it is illegal to sell and i've seen others that say the same. I apoligize for saying "illegal to import them" But the article leads me to believe that. I know all on the net is not true that is why i ask. I had and still have a very valid question and concern. I was using the knowledge of tbn to find answers. I was not looking for a flame war and will not particapate in such. Thankyou scrinch For a well put answer. Lets have a calm, dignified and ethical discussion on this topic.
Also court time moves very slow there could be many suits out there.
Just uknown lawyers don't like there clients talking. I've seen cases take as long as 10 years. Plus you could already be the target of a yet to be filed suit and not even know it until its filed.

 

[tommyb]

I have been in the import business about 12 years and went through the Kubota deal.When Kubota first filed their complaint,no one thought they would prevail as these tractors were used.Kubota used the trademark infringement,safety,liability argument and won.Every dealer in the area dumped their grey Kubota inventory at auctions as the rumor was that any unsold tractors may be confiscated.Turned out this wasn't true,but after the ruling came down, some containers of Kubotas were turned around at port and not allowed entry.Yanmar used a different approach to stop grey market imports,but the result is the same.They went after Wallace and his dealers in district court using basically the same argument that Kubota used and it worked.The wording in the agreement states,Wallace Trading,his dealers and "any other entities" shall stop the importation of Yanmar grey market tractors.This isn't word for word,but you get the meaning.The "any other entities" part is what made me check with US Customs before ordering any more Yanmars.I was told that no Yanmar tractor could be cleared unless it was built specifically for the US market.Some are still coming in with Zen-Noh decals,as are Kubotas.I don't think Wallace owns the Zen-Noh copywright anymore.Most of the VN recons coming into this area(SC)have Zen-Noh decals.The market here is pretty well saturated with recon 2WD with loaders.Seem to be selling kinda slow though.Anyway,I'm planning on retiring end of this year,so I'll leave it up to you younger fellas to sort it all out.