Grillo G107d for 7 acres (28.000M2) with olive trees

[cmyoung2]

Yes a diesel is heavier and will balance better, but all you have to do is hang weights on the gas engine to balance. I will have to do that with a 14 hp gas BCS850 and a rotary plow, no big deal. Not sure why heat is an issue, but the gas will be not as noisy, does take more fuel. I thought about diesel when I swapped engines, but initial cost was to much for the fuel savings for me.

TimberXX thanks for your answer. The local distributor in Greece told me that the best choice is the Robin Subaru engine for the walk behind tractor. However in the official site of Grillo in Italy (both in Eglish and Italian language) is written that the flail mower needs a diesel engine. I asked Grillo in Italy by e-mail why the powerful gasoline Robin Subaru engine 9HP can't be used with a flail mower and they informed me a) The walk behind tractor is more balanced with the diesel engine and the flail mower on it and b) diesel engines produce less heat than gasoline engines.



Yes I did these calculations myself too and I found that even with the second speed I can have excellent results.



I have no problem to work even for three days. Before purchasing Grillo 107d I wanted firstly to read some opinions of experienced users with walk behind tractors. Here in Greece the walk behind tractors are not famous, I have never seen one, the farmers here use 4-wheel tractors. However for my case, I believe that a walk behind tractor is an excellent alternative to an 4 wheeled tractor.

 

[leonz]

Yiasou, KalispEra,


My Yia Yia grew up next door to Z and in the same village. Don't hold that against me though please.


My dear friend you have come to the right place to avoid all the fasaria once and for all.

My Greek is very rusty so you will have to put up with my English. The larger the flail mower you purchase the better as you can overlap and recut all the clippings a second time if desired but once you have it cut to 2 inches/5.08 centimeters you will be able to plant grass seed in the fall to choke out the weeds.

The other thing is you will be able to shred the olive branch prunings if you intend to prune every
year with the flail mower too.

Are you keeping bee's on the property for pollination and Greek honey or will you be hiring bee hives?

When you have a few more posts on the board you will gain private message privileges and we can
chat more if you would like to.

You can send Joel at Earth Tools your questions too and he will answer them for you in a few days time if not sooner as his farming season is just starting so he is getting busier.

I have to run but dont hesistate to ask questions as we are here to help each other.

 

[TimberXX]

I have an 11 hp Honda on my 107d. I wonder why the Europeans put an 8 hp engines on the same tractor. I would put a larger 11 hp engine on, and get the 26 inch flail. Earth Tools

 

[freedomlives]

In this question of gasoline versus diesel, it occurs to me that in the US it is kind of equal, whether you get a gas or diesel engine for the walk behind-- diesel uses less fuel, but gasoline is in most states cheaper (I don't know if any states sell ag-diesel without taxes).
Average price right now in Greece is € 1.598 / liter for gasoline and € 1.349 / liter for diesel. (Europe Energy Portal >> Natural Gas and Electricity - Fuel Prices). Because of tax policies on fuel in most EU countries (if not all), diesel is taxed less than gasoline, and enough that diesel fuel is always cheaper than gasoline.
In US units, that is $6.47 a gallon for gasoline and $5.49 a gallon for diesel fuel.
A Kohler CH395 has a consumption of 313g/kWh (well, at least in application as a welder generator, couldn't find specs anywhere else on that). Between 2200 and 3100 rpm a Lombardini 15LD500 consumes less than 240g/kWh. So fuel consumption for the same power output is around 1/4 less on a diesel engine.
So an important question, which is perhaps difficult to answer, given that the weed density will vary and its hard to know what the average power output of the engine is while mowing, is how much fuel is consumed mowing the olive orchard and then how big of a difference that will make in running costs. I'm pretty sure that the point where buying a diesel engine over a gas one makes financial sense occurs much sooner in Greece than in the US. And if there is untaxed diesel of ag use in Greece (sadly not here :-( ) then the savings will occur even sooner.

 

[Silent Arrow]

At first, I want to thank you all for the participation in this thread.

@) cmyoung2, @) TimberXX & @) freedomlives

I will attach the two e-mails with Grillo Headquarters in Italy about flail mowers and diesel engines. Before this communication I was thinking of buying Grillo G85 walk behind tractor with Robin Subaru gasoline engine.

First e-mail and its reply:

Congratulations for your site! It is very informative.
I am interested in buying the Walking Tractor G85 Model with the Robin Subaru engine (gasoline).
The main implement which I will use is the 'all purpose flail 68cm'. The english version of your site writes that this implement is for diesel engines and the italian version of your site writes that the all purpose flail is recommended for diesel engines.
Please inform me if the G85 gasoline version with the powerful Robin Subaru engine can work with the all purpose flail. I am a bit confused.
Thank you for your time!

Dear *********,
the ROBIN SUBARU engine is a petrol engine. The all purpose flail is too heavy to be used with a petrol engine.
If you wish to attach an all purpose flail to your walking tractor a diesel engine is needed.
We remain at your full disposal for any questions you may have.
Kind regards

==================
Best regards
Cordiali saluti
Cordialement
Mit freundlichen Gr?en

Elisabetta Batani
After Sales&Service
GRILLO SPA
Grillo SpA - Agrigarden Machines

Second e-mail and its reply:

Thank you for your quick answer. You explained to me that the all purpose flail is too heavy to be used with a petrol engine.
G85 walking tractor can be equipped either with a diesel Lombardini engine (15LD350 model: 7.50 HP & 16.6 Nm Torque) or with a Robin Subaru petrol engine (EX27 OHC model: 9.0 HP & ~ 19.0 Nm Torque).
If you compare the above specifications between the Lombardini diesel engine and the Robin Subaru petrol engine, it's clear that the Robin Subaru petrol engine is much more powerful than the diesel Lombardini engine.
Do I miss somehing? Thank you for your time!

Dear *********,
diesel engines to do not overheat normally and they weigh more than petrol engines. This is the reason why they are recommended for heavy and power-absorbing attachments such as an all purpose flail. The walking tractor with diesel engine and equipped with the all purpose flail is much more balanced.
We remain at your full disposal
Kind regards

==================
Best regards
Cordiali saluti
Cordialement
Mit freundlichen Gr?en

Elisabetta Batani
After Sales&Service
GRILLO SPA
Grillo SpA - Agrigarden Machines

 

[Silent Arrow]

Yiasou, KalispEra,
My Yia Yia grew up next door to Z and in the same village. Don't hold that against me though please.
My dear friend you have come to the right place to avoid all the fasaria once and for all.
My Greek is very rusty so you will have to put up with my English.

The world is too small, when I read these words I got surprised! I didn't expect to meet here people with origin of Greece!!:drink:
Yes I agee, this site is awesome, I am reading many old threads these days and I learnt many things about tractors.

The larger the flail mower you purchase the better as you can overlap and recut all the clippings a second time if desired

The largest walk behind tractor that is supported here in Greece is Grillo G107d. If the official distributor was importing G110 with the 34inch (85cm) berta all purpose flail, I would have checked it out.

Are you keeping bee's on the property for pollination and Greek honey or will you be hiring bee hives?

No, I have never thought of keeping bees until now. I have left one apiarist to keep bees in one of my land parcels (without profit) but I regreted it because bees were getting upset very easily.

You can send Joel at Earth Tools your questions too and he will answer them for you in a few days time if not sooner as his farming season is just starting so he is getting busier.
I have to run but dont hesistate to ask questions as we are here to help each other.

Indeed, Earth Tools is an excellent site!

 

[Silent Arrow]

Check out YouTube for flail mowers. I think that some people run them in 3rd, but I'm not sure.

I found them!!!:cool2:

All purpose flail 26inch (68cm) with 2nd gear:
BCS 853 with 26" Berta Flail Mower (2nd Gear) - YouTube

All purpose flail 26inch (68cm) with 3rd gear (baffle of berta flail was however removed):
BCS 853 with 26" Berta Flail Mower - YouTube

 

[taygetos]

Hello everybody, this is my first post here, i've learned a lot from this forum!

@Silent Arrow : I am from Greece too and I have the g107 diesel and the Berta flail mower.

Regarding g107d : what you get from the distributor here is the version with 11hp diesel, auto reverse system, brakes with the levers mounted on the center of the handlebars, 4-10 wheels. I don't think you can get anything else. I asked them for the 5-12 wheels and they said they just don't bring them. (There are people in Greece who make wheels of these sizes but you have to drill new holes on the rims so they can fit Grillo plus the wheel rims are not adjustable on those wheels)

Engine : Given the prices here and all the mowing you will be doing, diesel will start paying off under a decade. I mow tall grass and it burns a little less than 1liter per hour. With gasoline it will be twice as much. At earth tools they say 11hp is too much for g107 clutch, but I downloaded the drawings from Grillo website, and the active clutch on g107 is the same with the clutch on g110. I don't know maybe g110 clutch is different in USA. Anybody who knows more on this?

Wheels : The mowing videos you linked are with 5-10 or 5-12 wheels. Speed is increased by 10 and 20% respectively with these wheels in comparison with 4-10's. The tractor hangs lower too with the 4-10's and you tend to bottom out often, particularly on uneven terrain. Practically I need about 4 hours for an acre, but I have old olive trees with wide trunks, and I have to drop to 2d gear when I mow between them. Otherwise I use only 3d gear at full throttle. This is the difference with sickle bars where you use half throttle and the tractor moves at half the speed, so what you gain from working width you lose from speed.

Brakes : In order to use them - which you'll do a lot when mowing - you have to reach with your right hand (left hand must keep depressing the clutch) and it's tiresome. On a slope it's worse. I would prefer the brakes on the handle so you can have both hands on the handle when using them. You can modify them of course.

Auto-reverse system : This version doesn't have the anti-vibration system. Vibration is an issue with the Lombardini engine, but you can modify the tractor to the anti-vibration system at a cost of 200€ on parts. Again I don't know if you can get the anti-vibration version on a new tractor here.

About flail mowers : I got the Berta from Italy at 1500€ plus 50€ for transport. I think Grillo's flail mower here is about 2000€ and I don't know if it is as good as Berta. One last think about mowing : If you have branches that hang very low that could be a problem because you have to go under them with the tractor. This is an issue with orange trees : even if you offset the handlebars you can't mow very close to the trunk. An offset mower would be better for this (like the one CADplans posted)

If you have any questions you can email me.

 

[freedomlives]

The diesel fuel consumption curve is pretty flat between 2400 to 3100 RPM-- it between those is the minimum fuel consumption for output power at about 2750RPM. Engine Lombardini 15LD 44 Diesel - GDN INDUSTRIES (look at performance curve link).
Is it not somehow a myth or just relevant to older machines that you need to run the sickle bar at half speed?
Looking at the manual for my Goldoni FC 80 cutter bar, it does not say anything about what speed to operate at.
One manual from ESM-EPT states:
"For your own safety, never operate the;
Municipal- Oscillating Bar (knife guide with grease fitting; stroke ~ 85 mm) at a rotational speed higher than 900 rpm
Hobby- Oscillating Bar (knife guide with rubber inlet; stroke ~ 55 mm) at a rotational speed higher than 1100 rpm"
The G107 has max RPM of PTO of 965, likewise the Grillo mower here: Operator's manuals Grillo Spa - Agrigarden Machines
The operating manual for the mower only "recommends" not operating at maximum speed. But it seems to me that "not maximum speed" can mean e.g. 90%, 80%, etc.
Of course, you should mow at the speed that is safe and comfortable given terrain and conditions...

 

[taygetos]

I don't know much about sickle bars since I don't own one, but on earth tools website they recommend running it up to half throttle.
Regarding the consumption curve for the Lombardini : consumption is 260gr/kWh at full throttle, so you need to calculate the power the implement demands. When I am mowing, fuel consumption is 1lt per hour (about 835grams). This means that the average demand of the mower is 3.2kW ~ 4.3 Hp which is low I believe but it would be higher when mowing in very tall and dense vegetation. But when I use my subaru powered air compressor even though the engine is only 6hp and it is only working 2/3 of the time at full throttle, consumption is close to 1,5 liter per hour. So when you put a 9 or 11 hp gasoline engine on a grillo I suspect it will consume twice as much as the diesel. Anyone who has worked with both engines could help us out here.
Berta recommends running the engine between 3200 and 3600 rpm. It would be a little more efficient to run at 3200 but I think the machine works better at full throttle and the difference in cost for the fuel is negligible.