Grillo vs BCS

   / Grillo vs BCS #1  

westva

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
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10
Alot of great information on this board and I believe that I probably can't go wrong with either of these brands.

Though I am primarily looking for a soilworking tool and could probably go cheaper for my most immediate concerns, I have narrowed my choices down to the BCS 853 and the Grillo 107D. I am going to get the berta rotary plow and eventually get a power harrow, a trailer, and a flail mower some time down the road.

Any thoughts or opinions to sway me one way or another? The grillo is significantly cheaper. The BCS seems more popular and the availability of used implements maybe more likely.

thanks
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #2  
I researched both these brands a year ago but decided to struggle on with my troy bilt pony. What I found out was that if your going to just till with it the Grillo is just as good or even a shade better than the BCS. However EVERYONE said if you planned on using it with other impliments that the BCS was the best by a good margin. Since you have plans down the road I think the BCS would be the best even if it is more money. Also I would imagine the extra money for the BCS will be recouped if and when you ever decide to sell it. Nobody much knows about the Grillos and BCS is very common and well known.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks I appreciate your input Bilrus.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #4  
Hi Westva,

WARNING - I sell Grillo machines new and buy used BCS machines to rebuild and sell. Take this into consideration when reading my advice.

They're very similar machines. BCS is the largest manufacturer of walk behind tractors in Italy, Grillo is the second. They've both been building these machines at least 50 years and actually worked together for the late 60 to the early 80's. In the unlikely event that you ever see a BCS 755 for sale, it's a Grillo 131 painted blue. Grillo was actually the first to come up with the idea of multiple tools off one engine. Before they started working together, BCS only made purpose built sickle mowers. As far as staying power, they're matched.

The BCS 853 is a very nice machine. I have its predecessor as my primary garden tractor - an 850 diesel. It has a few advantages over the Grillo 107d The biggest advantage is more horsepower. This means you can put larger attachments on the BCS. It also has a lot more name recognition. BCS has been imported in one form or another since 1975. Grillo has been here since 2005. 30 years longer to embed into the US consumers consciousness.

They also have a much larger dealer network, BUT that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I recently had a fellow bring in a 716 that had been through two local BCS dealerships and a Non-BCS dealership and still had problems. Though I'm not a BCS dealer, I had the problems fixed in short order. He'll never go to a BCS dealer again. I also fixed a guy's 850 he just bought "in perfect working order" from a third BCS dealership a little further away. It had three rather major problems with it that cost him 20 bucks in parts. He'll never take it to a BCS dealership again.

The Grillo has a few advantages over the BCS. First is a lower price point. Joel is THE importer for Grillo. You buy direct from him or you buy from one of his dealers. BCS is imported through BCS America. They get a cut. They sell them through distributers. They get a cut. The distributors sell them to the dealers. They get a cut. Everything from the Grillo tractor to the Grillo implements to the Grillo service parts are cheaper.

The Grillo also has a better designed clutch. It's serviceable and can be rebuilt for about 50 bucks. BCS's clutch is nonserviceable and has to be replaced for $250. Yes, they can be broken. More so, BCS's clutch has a bad habit of sticking. They tell you right off the bat (if the dealer's any good) that you need to leave the clutch disengaged when not in use or it will be seized by the next time you use it. Unseizing them requires taking the engine off the tractor, taking the clutch off the engine, and squeezing it the a vise. About half an hour for someone who knows what they're doing.

Grillo's biggest advantage is Joel Dufour at Earth Tools in Owenton Kentucky. He's forgotten more than I know about both BCS and Grillo. He knows more about BCS than most of the fellows AT BCS America. With him running the importation of Grillo machines, you can bet your bottom dollar he'll get what is needed for the US market, not just what they want a dealer to sell.

As far as used implements, many older rear mount BCS implements and the sickle mowers will bolt directly to the Grillo with no adaptor. As I mentioned, BCS and Grillo worked together for a long time. They are very similar machines. Newer rear mount attachments will also bolt right up to the Grillo with a $60 adaptor. The Grillo turns the the opposite direction when in front mount mode, so the only front mount attachment that will work is a sickle mower. Snowblowers and rotary mowers will turn opposite and not work. Blowers can be adapted by flipping the gearbox, but it's just better to buy what you need in that case.

From what you mentioned for desired attachments, I think you'd do fine with the 107d, unless you want the wider implements.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #5  
I own a BCS 853 and it is a great machine. It easily handles my rotary plow, 34" flail mower and 26" tiller.

I agree with Bill in Wisconsin's comments. If I were to do it all over again, I'd buy a Grillo 107D, a 26" flail mower, a 26" tiller, a rotary plow and use the left over money to buy a power harrow.
Bill in NC
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks FBB,

I was really hoping that you would chime in. All your activity on this board is much appreciated. I would be inclined to buy directly from you if I weren't so much closer Kentucky. I would like to go pick it up in person at my and their earliest convenience (and probably walk out with more implements than if I mail-ordered). If you don't mind I have a few more questions:
1. Am I reading it correctly that the 107d has higher running speeds despite lesser HP?

2. You have written previously that you did not think the 8hp diesel provides the truly appropriate amount of power and that you preferred the Honda engine. (I am inferring a little here). I have reluctantly talked myself out of the diesel due to budgetary demands and so was happy to come across your additional argument against.

A side note to back-up your characterization of BCS dealers.
I have been belaboring this purchase for a couple months now, talking to anyone who might have some knowledge of this equipment. Of two BCS owners I know here in WV, they were both relatively happy with their machines but extremely and demonstratively negative about dealer they went through.

thanks,
brian
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Bill in NC,

Thanks for the feedback.
I realize that you don't have the Harrow. But by all accounts it looks pretty awesome. If you did have one, do you think it would replace your tiller as your secondary tillage implement or do you feel the tiller is indispensable?

-brian
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Bill,
I understand you also run a diesel. Why do you prefer it?
Thanks again,
brian
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #9  
Oh I should say this too, since I was just going to till with my tiller I was going to get a Grillo 85D. I didn't want to sound like I was a BCS rah rah guy. I think for a pure tiller the Grillo 85d can't be beat for the money. As far as my engine goes I tried every way I could to logic that a diesel was the best but I just couldn't make it work. Even though we have off road fuel here on the farm that is tax free. I WAS however going to pay extra and get the Kohler/Yamaha gas on my mythical Grillo 85d. <sigh>
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #10  
I store my BCS inside the warehouse at our business. Diesel fuel is inherently safer than gasoline. It was a fire/flammabilty thing. Having said that, I opted for the largest diesel Earthtools could put on it. It is a sweet running machine. I also have a 737 with a 13hp manual start Honda. It is considerably lighter and bit more nimble than my big wheel/tired equipped 853.
Bill in NC
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #11  
Hey Brian,

The Grillo is better suited to mowing applications due to better speed ranges in the gears. You get a higher ground speed in third gear (a gear you very seldom, if ever, use during tillage). First and second gear are negligibly higher speeds and well-suited for tillage applications.

8.5 hp just is too much of a HP drop vs. an 11 hp Honda. The 8.5 hp is a adequate match for the 107d, but the cost/benefit ratio is terrible on it. In fact, the torque ratings are better on the Honda simply because it's SO MUCH bigger than the Lombardini (Kohler). If they had a 9.5 HP diesel, it'd run circles around the Honda. As it is, the clutch is a little bit weaker than the BCS clutch. You could put the 10 HP diesel on it and never have a problem if you didn't push it, but once you asked just a little too much out of it, you'd fry your clutch.It's a good clutch, it's just not rated to take the torque a 10 hp would give it. This is why Joel places the 107d as a slightly smaller machine vs. a BCS 853.

Don't get me wrong, there are good dealers out there. It's only that I have found that a dealer who sells one or two units a year just don't have the interest to learn about the BCS machines. They sell the garbage MTD and AYP makes at a 10 or 20 to 1 ratio.

You could also put a little bit of blame on their customers. We have such a throw-away mentality in this country (courtesy of BBS's like Walmart) that a buyer will look at a $3K BCS and say to him/herself "Why would I pay that much when I can get this one for $800? If the $800 one breaks, I'll just throw it away and buy another and still be money ahead." They never get past this thought to - "I'll bet that BCS or Grillo does a much better job at the task required and is so much nicer to use" or "My grandkids might have a garden and they'd sure appreciate a nice, durable machine 50 years from now"
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I have my doubts that it will be cost effective to burn petroleum in 50 (or 10) years. Which always leads me back to the diesel.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #13  
Hi Brian,

You do have a point on which fuel would be easier to make at home. If the Diesel had adequate power, I'd say the decision would be easier. Perhaps there will be a bigger Grillo with a heavier clutch to take on the 10 hp Lombardini coming out soon. Or maybe Joel will discover a 9.5 hp diesel engine to mount on the 107d. Best way to guarantee this is to buy a 107d! Next day the bigger machine will come out!
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Bill,
I went over and checked out the italian Grillo site today. And well, it was in Italian, but I was able parse a few details. It seems they they stock their 107d's with a choice of either a 10 HP Lombardini the 15 LD 400 or the 8.3 HP Subaru EX27.

Any thoughts?

-brian
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #15  
Hey Brian,

If you click on the little britich flag at the top of the Grillospa.it website, it'll send you to the Grilloagrigarden.co.uk website - English! I see where they say you can get it with the LD400 in the 2011 catalog, but they don't say that on the main website.

As I said, you can put a 10 HP diesel on it and never have trouble. But, the first time you push it a little too hard through a little too tough a job, you're gonna fry the clutch. Now that's not to say that you can't fry a clutch in an 853. My friend up in Boscobel has an 853 he uses for everything - he bales with it, too. He's fried a BCS clutch.

Didn't you say you had talked yourself out of a diesel? If worse comes to worst, you can make homemade alcohol to run through the Honda :)
 
   / Grillo vs BCS
  • Thread Starter
#16  
yeah, unfortunately i can talk myself in and out of purchases a few times a day.

that said, I am aware of my tendency to go overkill. How do you feel about the G85d? The rotary plow and the power harrow are my primary reasons for investing in this tractor. This tractor will probably run them as well as the 107d. As I understand it I am basically losing running speed for mowing operations by going down in models.

So, I don't know, I will crunch some numbers and make a decision this afternoon. Thanks for your help.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #17  
One thing I would give thought to, and that would be resale demand/value. Personally I would be way more interested in a 107D or an 853 than any of the other models, they are just more versatile, would sell faster and recoup more of your purchase price if you ever wanted to sell,, in my opinion.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #18  
Hi! I think a 8.5 hp Diesel can run a rotary plow or a power harrow in first gear with no problem. If you buy a 85D take it with 5x10 tires. BCS and Grillo are too light and need weight in wheels 60-80 lbs min. I have a Grillo 107d I like it. But I think a 85d could make the same work. Good luck! Oldmech
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #19  
The 85d has no brakes and is missing the third working speed. It also comes with a slightly smaller engine, but doesn't need to. It will do just about everything a 107d will regarding tillage, but you will suffer from a lack of speed in mowing operations. Unless you're REALLY looking to pinch pennies, I'd go for the 107d. It's a lot cheaper to spend the extra 400 bucks upfront than to regret buying an 85d and upgrade it later.
 
   / Grillo vs BCS #20  
I have BCS tractors with and without brakes and with and without differentials. There is a big difference in being behind them. Brakes and differential makes a big difference both while in motion and at rest. The fast hitch couplings still often require me to go around to the implement and jiggle it onto the hitch so as to get the locking pin to drop into place. Without brakes the tractor moves around during this process. The brakes are the ticket when using my flail and rotary mowers. I use the brake to turn the tractor and it makes the job so much easier on this old man's body.

Investing in brakes and differential trumps power investment (diesel vs. gas) in my humble opinion.
Bill in NC
 

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