grinding starter

[luckyeddie]

Hello, I have an L3800 HST that is a little over a year old,,,it has around 110 hours. I have had issues with the starter not engaging to the point I took it back to my dealer. They replaced the starter and did a complimentary fluid-filter change. I went down to the barn this morning and it took five tries to get it to start! I did use the glow plug,,although it's not that cool here in Georgia,,,,but I don't feel it makes a difference. The tractor is kept in an enclosed converted chicken house,,,,never outside. My dealer were helpful but offered no reason for this,,,,is this something anyone else has experienced? It's a great tractor,,,,but I would like it to start without all the drama of grinding metal,,,,,Eddie

 

[BeezFun]

Are you saying that not only does it not start, but the starter still grinds like it did before the dealer replaced the starter? Does the engine actually turn over, but still won't start? Or does the engine not even turn over?

 

[luckyeddie]

Are you saying that not only does it not start, but the starter still grinds like it did before the dealer replaced the starter? Does the engine actually turn over, but still won't start? Or does the engine not even turn over?

Yes, the starter grinds without starting the engine. I don't hold the key any longer than a few seconds in the start position when I hear the failure to turn the engine over,,,,,just that horrible grinding sound of the starter,,,,,,,it took five tries this morning before it "engaged" and started the tractor. My dealer said to use it till it dies,,,,,,the way things go,,it will die when I need it most!

 

[super55]

Yes, the starter grinds without starting the engine. I don't hold the key any longer than a few seconds in the start position when I hear the failure to turn the engine over,,,,,just that horrible grinding sound of the starter,,,,,,,it took five tries this morning before it "engaged" and started the tractor. My dealer said to use it till it dies,,,,,,the way things go,,it will die when I need it most!

If your dealer said that I might consider looking at a new svc dealer or at least get a second opinion. Grinding starters usually mean 1. Worn gears on starter, 2. Worn gears on flywheel or 3. There might be some clearance issues with the starter and the flywheel usually involving adding or removing some shims.

If they just replaced the starter and it is still doing it Im guessing you either have worn/missing teeth on the flywheel or the starter isn't engaging deep enough on the flywheel and is slipping/grinding because of some possible shims left from the previous starter.

I don't know if Kubotas have inspection plates for the flywheel but if they do it might be worthwhile to pull it off and take a peek.

 

[luckyeddie]

If your dealer said that I might consider looking at a new svc dealer or at least get a second opinion. Grinding starters usually mean 1. Worn gears on starter, 2. Worn gears on flywheel or 3. There might be some clearance issues with the starter and the flywheel usually involving adding or removing some shims.

If they just replaced the starter and it is still doing it Im guessing you either have worn/missing teeth on the flywheel or the starter isn't engaging deep enough on the flywheel and is slipping/grinding because of some possible shims left from the previous starter.

I don't know if Kubotas have inspection plates for the flywheel but if they do it might be worthwhile to pull it off and take a peek.

Alright, I will do that ASAP and I will be sure to let you know what I find. I will be sorely disappointed in my dealer if it is such an obvious issue!

 

[KennyV]

Pull the starter, very easy to do... You can See the flywheel gear with the starter removed.

 

[luckyeddie]

Thanks KennyV !!!

 

[timster2]

Engines stop at approximately the same position so if you have a broken/chipped tooth on the flywheel you will keep hitting it. Best to check the flywheel by removing the starter and inspecting the ring gear for damage. I would not accept " run it till it breaks " from the dealer. It will break at the most inopportune time guaranteed.

 

[BeezFun]

Engines stop at approximately the same position ...

Why? The pistons compression strokes are staggered, and there's a lot of spinning mass that has to come to rest.

 

[timster2]

Why? The pistons compression strokes are staggered, and there's a lot of spinning mass that has to come to rest.

It may be old school, however, still applies. The engine stops at the compression stroke or nearby thereby limiting the area that it stops. In an inline six cylinder engine the engine stops in one of three areas wearing out the ring gear due to the starter engaging and wearing the teeth. Depending on the number of cylinders and their configuration the engine will stop in about the same area if there is a chipped or damaged tooth on the ring gear you will hit the damaged area often. When rebuilding old inline six engines and replacing the flywheels it was common practice to rotate the ring gear sixty degrees to move the engagement area. If the ring gear was worn on one side it was flipped over and the process started over again. In this day of just replacing parts this is one of those things that is rarely done anymore, I'm showing my age :laughing:

 

[crazyal]

You should look at the teeth on the flywheel not just for a broken one but they also should be tapered in a way that will allow the two gears to engage each other. This is a small picture but it's the best I could find showing a good and bad flywheel ring gears. If you look closely at the second picture you can see the tapered tooth profile of a new ring gear.

 

[KennyV]

.... In this day of just replacing parts this is one of those things that is rarely done anymore, I'm showing my age :laughing:

Your right about usually stopping at a bad spot... I remember changing ring gear location more than a few times... and flipping them was usually a first round fix.
Labor time costs too much today. KennyV

 

[BeezFun]

The engine stops at the compression stroke or nearby thereby limiting the area that it stops.

That makes sense, but I'll also show my age. Back when I used to adjust the points, I recall using a remote starter to bump the engine while I tried to get it to stop where the points were open the max. It seemed like it stopped at some random place every time, and it was just a matter of luck to get it to stop in the right place. I would have thought the points would stop at the same place every time too.

 

[JRL305]

Only bumping the starter to move the crank a bit won't stop at the same place. The engine has to be acually running, then turn it off. We used to take off the flywheel and rotate it a bit and put it back on. If there's 6 evenly spaced bolts with no keyway, it works.

 

[rbargeron]

..........My dealer said to use it till it dies..........

If this tractor is only a year old is there any warranty left? Replacing the flywheel will be spendy. The dealer should involve the Kubota Rep now, not later. It's clear the problem is more than just a starter.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It also could be nothing but a bad drive clutch in the starter, which does not involve the ring gear at all.

 

[Recoveryhill]

Just me but if I had a year old tractor and was in the position of the OP, I'd be grinding the dealer, not the starter.

 

[rbargeron]

...... I took it back to my dealer. They replaced the starter........but I would like it to start without all the drama of grinding metal,,,,,Eddie

Just me but if I had a year old tractor and was in the position of the OP, I'd be grinding the dealer, not the starter.

me too :thumbsup: