Group 4 oil?

[gsxr1100]

Z71- I agree and the kicker is Mobil Super Syn is not that high in oil analysis for these nice cars you listed. Even better is when people say (as you noted) Daimer Chrysler routinely pulls oil samples. I find that hard to belive and as you again stated, just because you see the test you can’t even prove what oil was install. As you can tell is viscosity levels, TBN and a few others.

If the oil did not cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of the brand of oil used, viscosity, or the length of time or number of miles the oil was used

But then again, it is Chrysler, I rest my case.

Oh, most times the engineers do not have a say in the design. Most time it comes down to lead times and $$$$$.

 

[Gator6x4]

Most Cities have oil jobbers/suppliers. Call one of them and ask for "Break In Oil". I have never been able to locate any "Break In Oil". If you own a vehicle and during the period that you are supposed to be using "Break In Oil" you need to add oil, what do you use?

 

[Noland]

My advice to anyone would be to follow your manufacturers instructions.
I have a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel and they very specifically state to not use synthetic oil for the first several thousand miles. If your manufacturer dos not have a warning against it then it is probably OK to use it from the beginning, but if they do then I would follow their advice. Read those books. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cummins on break-in

Cummins on Synthetic oil

 

[gsxr1100]

I would not state they say not to use it.

They state, “ recommends that you not use synthetic motor oil during the break-in period of 5000-20,000 miles,…”

I see recommends, I do not see you MUST do anything or not do anything. Recommendation are just that, nothing more, nothing less. the local Jiffy lubes also recommend you take your car in every 3K miles for oil too.

If you use a synthtic from day 1 your rings seat slower..who cares. I will take a high Noack Volatility rate over more wear anyday.

I saw the same thing in my Powerstroke..blah blah..

 

[Noland]

The local Jiffy lube wants everyone coming in at 3000 miles for obvious reasons.
The reason why Cummins would advise an unnecessary break in period is not so obvious to me.
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter either way, but I did follow their advice, however unnecessary it may have been.

 

[HuckBB62]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( The local Jiffy lube wants everyone coming in at 3000 miles for obvious reasons.
The reason why Cummins would advise an unnecessary break in period is not so obvious to me.
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter either way, but I did follow their advice, however unnecessary it may have been. )</font>

A couple of things here, someone on the thread said they'd use group V, I don't think that's a good idea. Ester synthetics would be a bad application for your car, truck, or tractor.

About synthetics being expensive: I'd rather have the superior protection and cleaner engine particularly since it's not as if you change the oil that often anyway. Even in a high mileage car or truck, the cost is nominal.

About the break-in: I find it odd that they same guys that wouldn't use it during break in think that the oil's not needed. Hey, if it reduces friction enough during break in that much over dino oil, doesn't it figure that it'll keep engine wear down AFTER it's broken in that much better?

About high mileage engines on dino. Parts are never supposed to touch, period, metal to metal. Not in a roller bearing, not on a gear face, not on a piston/cylinder, not on a cam lobe, not ANYWHERE. Should you ever get metal to metal interference, ever, at any time, in any machine, it's called failure mode. Lubricant's jobs are to ensure this doesn't happen. A good regimine of dino oil will most certainly allow long engine runs. A good synthetic simply does it better. Engines run cooler, much cleaner, and the synthetic oil gives a great buffer zone for when the engine is stressed, over run, cold started, run at elevated temperatures, suffers temporary oil pressure loss etc. It's worth the money.

I've heard the argument over and over that people have seen million mile or hour engines all their lives on dino. I have too. Strangely enough, there's also engine repair facilities, mechanics, parts departments. My grandad lived to 81 years of age and smoked all his life. I guess my son could make the argument that cigarette smoking is good for you!

 

[gsxr1100]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A couple of things here, someone on the thread said they'd use group V, I don't think that's a good idea. Ester synthetics would be a bad application for your car, truck, or tractor. )</font>

Ok, I will bite..so why is this bad. Any data here? As I read/write this you are going against some MAJOR oil companies/corporations here. I know some group 4/5 oils (diesel and gas) that have the best adds out there. I would promote it but the user need to be smart here. That is the loophole. Some group 5 are only for racing and the adds are not high in areas you want.

 

[HuckBB62]

Most ester oil forumulations that I've seen are agressive on seals not designed for it causing swelling and failure. I'd make sure that your manufacturer says that all seals would handle ester based synthetics. I've had some spectacular seal failures on some machinery because of this incapatability. PAO based synthetics don't have this problem.

 

[gsxr1100]

Most group 5 already have seal swellers in them. I know Redline, Amsoil and several others have these properties.

This was a problem like 10 to 15+ years ago in engine land.....I know many people that use group 4 and 5 and do not have a problem. If they do, it was because they use dino oil before and the sludge was holding the seals together. The syntehtic cleaned out the seals.

So to close, I disagree and if you use a good 4 or 5 or both mixed, you will not have a problem. Also you stated "machinery" and I am taking engines.

Oh, any data on these failures? Or better yet websites... Or even better tell me the names of the oils and I will ask. I think this is a dead issue.

 

[HuckBB62]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Most ester oil forumulations that I've seen are agressive on seals not designed for it causing swelling and failure. I'd make sure that your manufacturer says that all seals would handle ester based synthetics. I've had some spectacular seal failures on some machinery because of this incapatability. PAO based synthetics don't have this problem. )</font>

I'll ask another question, which engine formulations are ester based?