Growing Old With Dignity

[Looking4new]

I pulled the plug on my Dad after he took a stroke and was going to lose his leg all the way up to the hip. Occasionally I have guilty feelings about it, but in my heart I know it was the best decision.
I know where I am going when I finally croak. I'm going where I will be warm and all my friends will be there, too.:devil:

 

[Sigarms]

but in my heart I know it was the best decision.

And I would like to think that the decision you made was out of pure love for your father. The reality is if there is a God, how can He hold something agasint you when you made a choice purely out of love? One could argue the God of Abraham whom Christians worship sacrificed his own son out of love.

 

[Bird]

I reckon I've posted this before, but I know there's a great deal of difference of opinion within the Christian faith as to whether one who commits suicide will be able to enter Heaven. I had an uncle (by marriage, Dad's sister's husband) who was an ordained Baptist minister who taught new preachers as well as members of the congregation. And not too long after my aunt died, he committed suicide. His brother was one of those who believed that prevented him from entering Heaven and he decided there should be no funeral. But the pastor of the Baptist church where my uncle taught just took over, obviously believing that suicide did NOT prevent entry into Heaven, and I thought his reasoning and the "sermon" he preached at the funeral pretty well summed up my beliefs, too.

 

[Sigarms]

I reckon I've posted this before, but I know there's a great deal of difference of opinion within the Christian faith as to whether one who commits suicide will be able to enter Heaven. I had an uncle (by marriage, Dad's sister's husband) who was an ordained Baptist minister who taught new preachers as well as members of the congregation. And not too long after my aunt died, he committed suicide. His brother was one of those who believed that prevented him from entering Heaven and he decided there should be no funeral. But the pastor of the Baptist church where my uncle taught just took over, obviously believing that suicide did NOT prevent entry into Heaven, and I thought his reasoning and the "sermon" he preached at the funeral pretty well summed up my beliefs, too.

Thing is, no man can be the judge of who goes into heaven or not and as to why.

Bigger question IMO becomes do you go diretly into heaven when you die, or do you "sleep" waiting for Jesus's return to judge if you go by the written word of scripture?

Ultimatley IMO there are more questions than answers, and it just comes down to faith.

 

[Bird]

Ultimatley IMO there are more questions than answers, and it just comes down to faith.

And THAT is true of ALL religions, in my opinion.

 

[Sigarms]

And THAT is true of ALL religions, in my opinion.

Some Christian believers will tell you EVERYTHING (AKA God's "truth") is in the written word of the Bible.

That said, I agree with you. Faith is the ability to believe without answers IMO.

The way I see it, the Bible is only about Jesus's love and what God did for us through His Son.

I'd also like to think that Jesus perhaps used some 4 letter words in his time before the age of 33 (just for tractor earnie:thumbsup.

 

[ovrszd]

From your comment about myself and my father at the VA and now this post, you assume way too much.

No clue what the man who serves the lord meant (and no distraction meant), and his response had nothing to do with the question that I asked. Ironically enough, lot like your post.

If you don't like me, don't respond to my question or post, adding nothing to the mix.

I don't go home with my toy blocks...

Here is a question for you, if your dad was incompetent with Alzheimers and just laid in bed for two whole years, why not be merciful and end his life? Do you believe that is what your dad would of wanted? Now, if you have a smart butt response, no need to reply, but I am sincerely curious as to when you thought your father was "past his age" for living. Or, do you believe that no matter what state you're in at an old age, as long as your heart can beat, that means it's the Lords will that you live and no one should do anything and the person should die when they die?

The flip side to that is a long time ago, people in their 20's and 30's would die 100 years ago for something considered pretty simple by today's medicine. Both my grandfathers died by age 50. One from black lung, and the other from gangrene on a logging accident.

My dad could not bring himself to tell the doctors to "pull the plug" on his wife. It came to me, which I did. Feel guilty about it from time to time, but I know it's what my mother would of wanted because where she was "at", there was no coming back from a recovery.

Hope someone loves me enough when I'm bedridden to make the same choice.

I assume nothing. I just read what you post as Ernie does.

I've never said whether I like you or not. I figure that's irrelevant. Obviously not to you.

To answer your question. During the two years of my Dad's incompetence, the end of his life was not in my hands. It was, as always, in God's hands. Now by your suggestion I should have taken charge and smothered him with a pillow. Great choice. So my family lost a member to my hand. And they lost me to prison. Great choice.

I believe that as long as my body can sustain itself with life essential functions it should not be interfered with. I.e., the pillow. I believe we should have the right to declare no artificial assistance in accomplishing that. And we can. Legally. No prison time.

My Dad died when God decided. Mankind did everything to make that as comfortable and humane as possible.

Your reference to pulling the plug is not the same. I referred to that second paragraph up.

So if you have a life changing event that restricts you to a bed you want the pillow treatment?? Really?? A person should be respectful about what they declare in such matters in God's presence.

 

[Sigarms]

Ultimatley per a online forum, I honestly don't care if you like me or not. That said, most of your responses to my questions had nothing to do with the subject at hand or the question I posed, just for the most part, had a negative connotative response.

So, if your father was incompetent for two years and bed ridden, in your mind was that God's will? I would respectfully argue that if I were your father, and I were bed ridden for two years and couldn't remember a family members name due to my brain being gone, I'd have no qualms with a doctor ending my life. I also respectfully argue that we all don't die when our "God" decides its time. If that were the case, God would not give man the technolgoy to pro long life via medical means.

If I were left to a bed to rot never being able to get out of it, I'd have no qualms with a family member giving me a gun to make my own decision.

I'm not certain how my reference to "pulling the plug" is not the same"? I could of left the tube in my mothers throat for months and she could of still lived for that time. When I told the doctors to pull the tube from her throat, she died within 10 minutes. My father cried like a baby at the time, but he thanked me later for having to courage to do so.

Anyone who loves life would feel the same IMO per the last 4 sentences above.

And thank you for your honest response. Just keep it to the subject at hand and no smart arse comments. Generally, I only attack if someone does the same to me.

 

[ovrszd]

Ultimatley per a online forum, I honestly don't care if you like me or not. That said, most of your responses to my questions had nothing to do with the subject at hand or the question I posed, just for the most part, had a negative connotative response.

So, if you're father was incompetent for two years, in your mind was that God's will? I would respectfully argue that if I were your father, and I were bed ridden for two years and couldn't remember a family members name due to my brain being gone, I'd have no qualms with a doctor ending my life. I also respectuflly argue that we all don't die when our "God" decides its time. If that were the case, God would not give man the technolgoy to pro long life via medical means.

If I were left to a bed to rot never being able to get out of it, I'd have no qualms with a family member giving me a gun to make my own decision.

I'm not certain how my reference to "pulling the plug" is not the same"? I could of left the tube in my mothers throat for months and she could of still lived for that time. When I told the doctors to pull the tube from her throat, she died within 10 minutes.,

Anyone who loves life would feel the same IMO per the last two sentences above.

And thank you for your honest response. Just keep it to the subject at hand and no smart arse comments.

Any poster that calls you out on your opinions/statements is automatically put in the "don't like you" pen. You are always the one in the conversation that inserts that part.

Yes. It was most certainly God's will. Just as the fact that you are alive at this moment to read this is absolutely God's will.

In your paragraph asking that question you quickly changed subjects. You are good at that. Great distraction from the point at hand. So now I'll respond to the distraction subject. I'll guarantee you that if my father could have magically been of sound mind for a moment during that two years he would have said "I want out". By the time my Dad's senses deteriorated to the point of no quality of life he could no longer manage the task of ending his life without help.

Your desire for a Doctor to end your life were you in this situation is a fantasy. That Doctor isn't going to spend the rest of his life in prison so you can escape God's path for you.

With the technology we have to prolong life there still always is an end. Just because mankind has honed this technology and practices it is not even remotely, in anyone's wildest imagination, that there's no God.

The family member that hands you the gun will spend his life rotting in prison. So you'd be okay with putting that person in that position?? Great choice.

 

[Sigarms]

Any poster that calls you out on your opinions/statements is automatically put in the "don't like you" pen. You are always the one in the conversation that inserts that part.

Yes. It was most certainly God's will. Just as the fact that you are alive at this moment to read this is absolutely God's will.

In your paragraph asking that question you quickly changed subjects. You are good at that. Great distraction from the point at hand. So now I'll respond to the distraction subject. I'll guarantee you that if my father could have magically been of sound mind for a moment during that two years he would have said "I want out". By the time my Dad's senses deteriorated to the point of no quality of life he could no longer manage the task of ending his life without help.

Your desire for a Doctor to end your life were you in this situation is a fantasy. That Doctor isn't going to spend the rest of his life in prison so you can escape God's path for you.

With the technology we have to prolong life there still always is an end. Just because mankind has honed this technology and practices it is not even remotely, in anyone's wildest imagination, that there's no God.

The family member that hands you the gun will spend his life rotting in prison. So you'd be okay with putting that person in that position?? Great choice.

1 - I don't try to change subjects to distract. If that's what you I believe I do, you are wrong.

2 - You state "So now I'll respond to the distraction subject. I'll guarantee you that if my father could have magically been of sound mind for a moment during that two years he would have said "I want out"." If my fahter told me that of sound mind and body, I'd do what I could to end his life even though he was a fruit cake the last two years of his life.

3 - When my mother went into congestive hart failure at around 21:00, and it wasn't until about 23:00 until I could actually speak to a doctor because I threatened them with a lawsuit NOT to keep her alive, I learned a lot. Bottom line? it was the medical professions duty to keep her alive at all medical costs. So... if I didn't threaten to sue them, they would of still kept her alive. Funny thing, I had a "off the record" coversation with the doctor and what he would do if the woman on the table were his mother. After I told them to remove the tube, my mother died within 2 minutes.

And you're correct. If you waste the last years of your life in bed doing nothing and losing your mind, if someone hands you a gun, they would spend their life in prision. That's the irony when you watch someone you love die a slow death.