Growing the Nation's Fuel on the Farm

[Tom_H]

This is a very interesting article regarding making ethanol from biomass. It sounds like the technology costs are dropping so rapidly that making cellulose based ethanol from our own farm and forest leftovers could actually be cheaper than buying foreign oil. Imagine: no sending our money to unstable middle eastern countries, no need to police them, keeping our money in circulation here, more markets for local farmers. Surely sounds good; if it can just come true.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101769.html

 

[California]

I flew to Omaha last weekend for a wedding. The papers there, where all the action is, had an interesting take on this.

They said there will be about 20 producers online in the next year vs about 8 today, but competition from the strongest ones will wipe out the investors in all but the few strongest. I think because the highest volume producers can operate at lesser costs. Not a good time to invest in a startup.

Also, they predicted that lower costs will result in gasahol replacing gasoline rapidly in the regions where it is produced. However gasahol cannot be run through a pipeline (without massive conversion costs) so it will be more slowly adopted in other parts of the country.

Finally, I saw gasahol (e85?) 2 to 5 cents cheaper than unleaded at every station. This may be old news to those of you living in the Midwest, but the extent to which e85 is already mainstream was a surprise to me.

 

[Egon]

"gasahol cannot be run through a pipeline "

This should not present any problem. Pipelines run numerous different product through the same line.

 

[MikePA]

This should not present any problem. Pipelines run numerous different product through the same line.

Interesting article here about the problems with running ethanol and gasohol in pipelines. The net of it....ethanol loves to absorb water, water in pipelines is normal, ethanol plus water equals unusable fuel. Water plus gasohol equals reduced octane fuel, i.e., it does present a problem.

 

[Thurd Ferguson]

As more and more ethanol product is brought to market, we will see many more engine problems and loss of mpg. Ethanol WILL cost more than gasoline product due to shortages. There will never be enough corn grown to feed the demand for ethanol.

 

[dubba]

I am probably out in left field here but..

In my perfect world (not the one I live in, The other one ) I would pay $1.00 gallon more than regular gasoline for E85-E100 as long as the farmers are able to grow the corn, switchgrass, alien eggs, or whatever, for a comfortable living. But, I will need free ice cream I think a lot of individuality, common sense, & personal pride is lost in this country when the farmers can't make a living.

Dubba, steps down from his soapbox & gets another beer

 

[PitbullMidwest]

They said there will be about 20 producers online in the next year vs about 8 today, but competition from the strongest ones will wipe out the investors in all but the few strongest. I think because the highest volume producers can operate at lesser costs. Not a good time to invest in a startup.

Iowa leads the nation in biofuel production with 15 ethanol plants currently running and as many expanding or under construction (according to the Ag Extension at Iowa State). I don't remember how many biodiesel plants are operating but there are 2 under construction within 100 mile of me, the local ethanol plant is expanding for the second time in 8 years. Most commentators I've heard believe that it will be quite some time before a single player emerges and suggest that investing is actually a good deal at this time.

Also, they predicted that lower costs will result in gasahol replacing gasoline rapidly in the regions where it is produced.

Ethanol will become competative once the ethanol producers own the land and grow their own high yielding, gentically modfied corn for fuel use only (not for food or feed). Until then they will be dependant on the farmers in their area. I can't see ethanol replacing gasoline since the plants are not blending fuel just producing the alcohol.

Finally, I saw gasahol (e85?) 2 to 5 cents cheaper than unleaded at every station. This may be old news to those of you living in the Midwest, but the extent to which e85 is already mainstream was a surprise to me.

If it was 2 - 5 cents cheaper it was either E10 (10% ethanol blend) or E15 (15% ethanol blend). E85 is => in price than premium gas, even in Iowa. There is only one station in SE Iowa I know of that is selling E85. Whenever you read about ethanol you need to keep in mind that the terms "ethanol" and "E85" are not interchangable, even though the media use them that way. Every gas station in the midwest sells E10 or E15 but until Detroit sells more flex fuel vehicles and demand increases, most stations will be reluctant to dedicate a pump to a fuel with little demand.

 

[Egon]

Interesting article here about the problems with running ethanol and gasohol in pipelines. The net of it....ethanol loves to absorb water, water in pipelines is normal, ethanol plus water equals unusable fuel. Water plus gasohol equals reduced octane fuel, i.e., it does present a problem.

Water in pipelines transporting a finished product is not normal. The different products being shipped by pipeline usually have up to four pigs for each batch shipment. The pigs keep the line clear.

Egon

 

[MikePA]

Water in pipelines transporting a finished product is not normal. Egon

The article I referenced indicated it is normal.

 

[Egon]

Mike:

From the little knowledge I have the article in question has dubvious data on the source of water.

Tanks are not open to the atmospere. Many may have floating tops but almost all will have gas blanket on them or some other means of positive pressure like nitogen.

Where condensation comes from is a mystery to me as all the systems are closed or have positive pressure. Air and hydrocarbons is really a no no in the industry.

Egon