Growing the Nation's Fuel on the Farm
- Thread starter Tom_H
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Although, I have heard this same story other places, i.e., water can cause shipping problems for ethanol.
California
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Sorry! This wide-eyed tourist misinterpreted what he was seeing. After I started to fill the rental car with unleaded, I then noticed the cheapest fuel was at the next pump over. I thought that was e85.PitbullMidwest said:
What's your take on the view that it takes more petroleum input for fertilizer, distilling, and diesel (farm and transport) than the energy that comes out the end of the process? Is it cost effective to the farmer to run his tractors on ethanol or biodiesel? I've seen only a lot of confusing speculation on this.
What's your take on the view that it takes more petroleum input for fertilizer, distilling, and diesel (farm and transport) than the energy that comes out the end of the process? Is it cost effective to the farmer to run his tractors on ethanol or biodiesel? I've seen only a lot of confusing speculation on this.[/QUOTE]
I remember 7th grade Physical Science: You will never get more work out of a system than you put into it.
I think bio fuels are a good stop-gap, but not a solution to our problem in the long run.
my .02
I remember 7th grade Physical Science: You will never get more work out of a system than you put into it.
I think bio fuels are a good stop-gap, but not a solution to our problem in the long run.
my .02
Here is another article on the same subject:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/21/news/economy/cellulose_ethanol/index.htm?cnn=yes
Note that this is not corn (glucose) based ethanol. It is cellulose based and could be made from a wide variety of sources. This article is not quite as optimistic as the previous one.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/21/news/economy/cellulose_ethanol/index.htm?cnn=yes
Note that this is not corn (glucose) based ethanol. It is cellulose based and could be made from a wide variety of sources. This article is not quite as optimistic as the previous one.
Egon
Epic Contributor
Mike:
Formation water[ salt ] may get into some low refined products through plant misshaps. It may gets past the monitoring devices and if so it may separate and build up in low spots in the pipeline. If this happens it usually comes out as a slug and has contaminated the transported product. Product owners really frown if this occurs.
Usually any water/impurities will be detected by sampling berfore the product gets into the pipeline and the product will not be allowed transportation. The product will also be sampled upon leaving the pipeline.
If the pipeline is using pigs they will usually assure that the pipeline is left clean.
Lots more I have no idea about.
Formation water[ salt ] may get into some low refined products through plant misshaps. It may gets past the monitoring devices and if so it may separate and build up in low spots in the pipeline. If this happens it usually comes out as a slug and has contaminated the transported product. Product owners really frown if this occurs.
Usually any water/impurities will be detected by sampling berfore the product gets into the pipeline and the product will not be allowed transportation. The product will also be sampled upon leaving the pipeline.
If the pipeline is using pigs they will usually assure that the pipeline is left clean.
Lots more I have no idea about.
PitbullMidwest
Platinum Member
California said:
Ethanol has its critics, just do a search here on TBN and you'll find that. The opposition reminds me of the switch from leaded to unleaded fuel. The critics painted a future of underpowered cars with top speeds of 85 MPH and 0-60 speeds of 38.9 seconds, after all everyone knows that lead-free gas produces less power than leaded.
The industry is in its infancy and the product and the technology to use it will only improve. As far as production energy vs. returned energy, here's a good (biased) article to start with:
http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=1887&q=more fuel to produce&category_id=45
and another:
http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/documents/energy_balance_003.pdf
Good question, but I don't know. Ethanol plants produce alcohol not blended fuels so you can't buy the end product directly from them. That doesn't mean that as E85 use increases that they won't someday pipe gasoline to their facility and become blending plants. I don't know this for sure but was told that what comes out of biodiesel plants is an end user product. If this is in fact true, local fuel costs would drop for sure.
Other critics say that it takes food from the table, this isn't true either, read this:
http://www.ncga.com/news/OurView/2006/05_24_06.asp
Iowa has tossed it's hat in the ring to address our nation's fuel needs, I for one am a true ethanol believer
In the news today: a war over which ethanol formula to embrace:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/23/technology/futureboy0623.biz2/index.htm?cnn=yes
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/23/technology/futureboy0623.biz2/index.htm?cnn=yes
PitbullMidwest
Platinum Member
Interesting article.
I'm not sure why but California has always been the most vocal opponent of ethanol. There is a quote that shows up in farm publications from time to time that is attributed to Gray Davis. Davis supposedly said "California won't be held hostage for its energy needs by a bunch of Iowa hog farmers". Multi-billion dollar petrochemical companies - yes, foreign oil producing terrorist sponsoring nations - yes, but he draws the line at Iowa. You can imagine the fun that the magazines have with this. Apparantly everyone but Gray Davis knows that ethanol is made from corn, not pig poop.
How ethanol is made and what it is made from will eventually shake out. Who knows, maybe regional fuel producers will one day replace the massive, enviromentally unfriendly refineries that we depend on today.
I'm not sure why but California has always been the most vocal opponent of ethanol. There is a quote that shows up in farm publications from time to time that is attributed to Gray Davis. Davis supposedly said "California won't be held hostage for its energy needs by a bunch of Iowa hog farmers". Multi-billion dollar petrochemical companies - yes, foreign oil producing terrorist sponsoring nations - yes, but he draws the line at Iowa. You can imagine the fun that the magazines have with this. Apparantly everyone but Gray Davis knows that ethanol is made from corn, not pig poop.
How ethanol is made and what it is made from will eventually shake out. Who knows, maybe regional fuel producers will one day replace the massive, enviromentally unfriendly refineries that we depend on today.
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