gun addiction - more coming soon

   / gun addiction - more coming soon #221  
I see we are cutting hairs. Always has been in modern times, at least in this country.

I'm aware that in past history an armed society has taken up against tyranny.

I certainly don't see that occurring at present or in the future.

It's awfully hard to get 2 individuals to agree on anything today, especially when it comes to politically oriented issues or issues of national security (perceived).

If, in fact, that I agree or disagree with your stance on a certain issue or issues is still my perrogative. This is a discussion after all. Nothing more.
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #222  
A couple more thoughts...then I'm leaving this sandbox.

1st on the gun control side. The guy that doesn't hunt but shoots 3 gun, owns a benelli, an AR and a Glock, sees no sporting purpose in an over-under beretta, a Ruger Blackhawk or your .338 Lapua...you want him voting with you or against you? The guy that hunts rabbits with his 10/22 doesn't see the need for the 25rnd mag that the guy that uses a very similar 10/22 and the 25rnd mag for the ruger rimfire challenge, but cares less about the bunnies...the guy that hunts elk in Colorado, and pheasants in SD wouldn't give up his 300 win mag or his Rem 1100, but could care less about about the guy down the road with an 870 behind the closet door for bumps in the night, but we all see the value in protecting the right to bear arms...don't let things like this divide us.

Regarding the attraction to military arms...pretty sure at one point a muzzle loader was a "military arm", correct me if I'm wrong, but the lowly bolt action Mauser 98 might have been involved in a couple conflicts, the most vanilla Rem 700 isn't too far removed from a military arm...your 1911...probably don't have to go on...not a valid argument for limiting gun choices on the market unless you're ready to let that Savage go...

Haven't reviewed the list word for word vs. written laws, but thought I'd end with this that I heard on one of the pro-gun podcasts I listen to...
"Of all the Constitutional Amendments, it is only the Second that we have to ask permission from the government to exercise" Maybe not word-for-word, but you get the idea.

bearcat--out
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #223  
A couple more thoughts...then I'm leaving this sandbox.

1st on the gun control side. The guy that doesn't hunt but shoots 3 gun, owns a benelli, an AR and a Glock, sees no sporting purpose in an over-under beretta, a Ruger Blackhawk or your .338 Lapua...you want him voting with you or against you? The guy that hunts rabbits with his 10/22 doesn't see the need for the 25rnd mag that the guy that uses a very similar 10/22 and the 25rnd mag for the ruger rimfire challenge, but cares less about the bunnies...the guy that hunts elk in Colorado, and pheasants in SD wouldn't give up his 300 win mag or his Rem 1100, but could care less about about the guy down the road with an 870 behind the closet door for bumps in the night, but we all see the value in protecting the right to bear arms...don't let things like this divide us.

Regarding the attraction to military arms...pretty sure at one point a muzzle loader was a "military arm", correct me if I'm wrong, but the lowly bolt action Mauser 98 might have been involved in a couple conflicts, the most vanilla Rem 700 isn't too far removed from a military arm...your 1911...probably don't have to go on...not a valid argument for limiting gun choices on the market unless you're ready to let that Savage go...

Haven't reviewed the list word for word vs. written laws, but thought I'd end with this that I heard on one of the pro-gun podcasts I listen to...
"Of all the Constitutional Amendments, it is only the Second that we have to ask permission from the government to exercise" Maybe not word-for-word, but you get the idea.

bearcat--out

Pretty much in agreement and had this within my own family. For quite a few years even though I grew up in a house with a couple of guns and did a little hunting I didn't own any firearms, just didn't need one. I supported the full rights though.

When someone tried to break in my house where me, my wife and son were completely helpless as I was recovering from a pretty bad car wreck, I went out and bought a handgun as I could not handle a rifle at that time. My father in law was a lifelong, avid hunter, but saw no legitimate use for handguns and thought only the police and military should own them.

He became incensed when anyone talked of outlawing his semi-auto shotgun or rifle or opposed hunting, but sat back approvingly when people proposed outlawing handguns or the "Evil Black Rifle".

My brother in law was also of the same mindset until someone threatened him and he hot footed it over to my house to borrow a pistol. He was appalled that the regulations he so favored, kept him from buying a handgun without a permit, after all, he NEEDED IT NOW". He doesn't shoot, but owns a handgun, he was an MP in the Army, so he knows how, just doesn't care for them.

I have often used the lever action when "debating" "Assault Weapons" as it was the "Assault Weapon" of its day, as was the first breach loader on up.

My wife hunts with a semi-automatic Remington 742 detachable box magazine in .308 and it is recognized as a "Sporting Arm" while my son's HK91, also a semi-automatic in .308 is considered an EBR. My Ruger Mini 14 was not considered as "evil" under the "Assault Weapons Ban", but my AR was was, both operated essentially the same with the only difference being cosmetic.

I hunt, but it is not that big of a deal for me. If the hunters who look down their noses at those of us who choose firearms/pursuits different from theirs are willing to throw us to the wolves, they should expect no support from us when their guns or sport are next on the list.

I don't know if significant gun control will happen here, but it has happened in the UK, Australia, Canada and elsewhere, even Switzerland is changing their laws.

For those who question the intent of the 2nd Amendment, read the Heller and McDonald Decision as well as the Federalist Papers.

Probably need to bow out to as this sees to be going nowhere fast.
 
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   / gun addiction - more coming soon #224  
I don't know if significant gun control will happen here, but it has happened in the UK, Australia, Canada and elsewhere, even Switzerland is changing their laws.

For those who question the intent of the 2nd Amendment, read the Heller and McDonald Decision as well as the Federalist Papers.

Probably need to bow out to as his sees to be going nowhere fast.

Don't give up, remember what's at stake.

'Besieged' Homs endures tank assault - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


JB
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #225  
Here's my take.

1, target shooting would be / is a valid 'sporting use' of a firearm.

I can tell you for sure that my .416 has shot at more targets than animals,

As I mentioned in another post.. I collect handcannon.

pretty much.. 'just because'. While a couple of them might actually have a limited practical application in hunting as a primary weapon, I'd never do so. ( I used to be in a hunt club and ezeryone went out with colt anaconda in .44mag with scopes for florida deer.. it wasn't my bag.. yes.. I do have the long bbl'd anaconda.. :) )

For hand cannon I like the odd and big stuff .500mag, .50AE .44amp, .45winmag, .44mag ( not even really a hand cannon if you ask me.. ) .30carbine etc.

I can certaintly see the want to own and target shoot -any- partigular gun.

Add to this, the collector facet. I collect many guns I will NEVER shoot, but I do want to own them, to fill out my collection.. whether it is a specific caliber or caliber range I am wanting.. or gun 'family' etc.

soundguy

Maybe I should have put a smiley next to it. It was, in jest, well, partially. I don't see any constructive use for the firearm in a sporting sense..... It's not a good long range Elk firearm nor is it a mule deer firearm and certainly not a Cape Buffalo shooter. So what good is it? It's a status symbol, much like owning a city lot and having a diesel lawnmower (CUT), because you want to 'one up' the guy next door with his push mower or owning a pickup truck that never has anything in the bed other than a bag of sand for traction.

The same applies to the pistols (paramilitary style) you are discussing here. You really can't use them as a hunting tool, it's a status symbol. I shoot inddor competition pistol. Consequently I have some very expensive handguns, however, the expense is in accuracy and ergonomics not in multiple picatinny rails, flash suppressors and clunky ergo's that lend themselves to the 'tactical' 'military' look.

While I have no problem with that other than scratching my head and wondering why anyone would want that stuff, It's still all about the right to bear arms as written in the Second Amendment. In that vein, buy what you want to (so long as you can afford it) and do what you want with the purchase. For myself, that type of firearm is basically worthless.

I'd like to know (for statistical purposes and my own delf indulgence) just how many people purchase large caliber rifles, in particular, 50's and atually use them on a regular basis and for what. You can't hunt with them, too heavy. You'd need a lackey to carry the rifle..... They are too expensive to shoot because the ammunition, even if handloaded is prohibitively expensive.

To rail an optic that would be capable of sighting that type of firearm requires a winning lotto ticket and the cartridges, while prohibitively expensive are also very heavy.

That's not to say I don't have very expensive optics becaue I do, but they are railed on firearms that I can hunt with, not a firearm that needs wheels under it to move it about.....

They impress me as a poser firearm. Like 'I have one, I shot it a couple times but it's a PITA both in cost, cost of ammo and weight, so it sits in the gun safe just in case I ever need it'..... Need it for what?

Again, a firearm is a tool. An unused tool for whatever reason is a tool not worth owning or owning just to say I have one..... That in itself is stupidity and why I referred to it as an extension of an inadequate sexual organ, much like the never utilized pickup truck or the diesel lawnmower cutting a subdivision sized lawn.

If it don't have a constructive use or it don't serve a need that I have, I'm not going to own it.
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #226  
...all you need now is a gear transmission tractor with a vertical exhaust...

hey.. i have a few ( more than a few? ) of those.. :) many ( ost? ) of them are straight piped too!

soundguy
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #227  
Hmmmm...JB, guess we all need to stock mortars and tanks, and for the most ardent of defensive weapons enthusiasts, a few intermediate range nukes. That'll keep us in bread if things get tough and we need to defend our homs:laughing:

I do support gun ownership, but there HAS to be a point at which personal defense stops and collective defense begins.

I, too, have been stunned by recent visits to gun shops that are filled with patrons, at all times of day. Seems that the interest in weapon ownership is alive and thriving.

And, remember, it was a Republican administration who brought you search and seizure at airports, invasion of privacy via electronic means and holding US citizens without any trial.

You can argue its necessity, but the facts are irrefutable, we lost more individual freedoms from this act than at any time since WW2. It is the largest federal government reorganization since the Department of Defense was created via the National Security Act of 1947 (as amended in 1949). It also includes many of the organizations under which the powers of the USA PATRIOT Act are exercised.

I believe you can NEVER completely stop terrorist attacks. They don't in Israel, or England, or elsewhere, including the USA....examples being the Fort Hood shooting, Gabby Giffords shooting, Oklahoma bombing, anthrax letters, the unabomber, Virginia Tech Massacre .... you can add your favorites, either from before or after the Patriot act. These sad events with loss of life and personal impact are simply part of the risks of life. These risks can never be brought to ZERO.

And, these risks have been with us always. I have PERSONALLY read the spanish handwritten minutes of the town council of Goliad, Texas, 1824. Comanches were well known to raiding the immediate area, killing farmers and family. Believing that the council needed to do something, they passed an ordnance that no one should go outside of town without carrying a weapon, else they would be fined upon return.

Idiotic!! If threat of immediate torture and death was insufficient to motivate a person to carry a weapon, surely a fine would be ineffective!!

So, for those of us concerned about the size of government and federal debt, remember that a Republican administration removed personal freedoms, increased the size of government and introduced massive federal spending by use of emergency supplemental spending outside the budget process.

Just saying that anytime we become so worried about safety that we are willing to give up our freedoms along with massive current and future treasure seeking to achieve perfect protection and safety, it is a fool's quest. Remember Goliad!!

If you happen to believe that actions speak louder than words, then look to the ACTIONS performed by a political party rather than the WORDS of a candidate. Of course, this requires understanding actual actions and results, while not yielding to emotionally tinged and biased words/commentary which are seldom founded on any true facts.

So, next time you vote, do so based on past actions of a party, not words/promises which are easy to say, hard to implement unless you are the king OR an authoritarian government like in Syria.... and we dismissed that form of government a while ago.

There, I did it...started with Syria and ended with it!!
 
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   / gun addiction - more coming soon #228  
I must have missed something, I didn't see the turn to Republican v Democrat thing.
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #229  
I must have missed something, I didn't see the turn to Republican v Democrat thing.

Well, I did respond to 5030's comments about gun ownership...that was, admittedly, on the verge of political.
However, now we can return to the topic at hand...GUNS!!!
 
   / gun addiction - more coming soon #230  
Well, I did respond to 5030's comments about gun ownership...that was, admittedly, on the verge of political.
However, now we can return to the topic at hand...GUNS!!!

I didn't see political parties mentioned, but I probably miss more than I catch.

Roy, right now I guess my biggest problem is I can't figure out which gun I want more since I can't afford them all and I really don't "need" another gun.:eek:
 

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