Gutless CK20?

[Massey1010]

I Just got my CK20, 2006 year, and have been trying it out but I've run across some problems that I'm thinking I have something really wrong with my tractor. I put a set of clamp on forks on the bucket and lifted an object on a pallet that weighs about 4-5 hundred pounds. The tractor seemed to lift it just fine but then when I wanted to move, the steering wheel would barely turn. I would turn it and the front wheels would very slowly turn and eventually catch part way up with the steering wheel. Is this typical of power steering when you have a load on the front? This seems most unacceptable to me.

The other problem is when I put a set of forks on the three point and tried to lift a pallet of salt bags that weighs aprox 600 lbs it would not lift it no matter how high I set the throttle without going above PTO speed. With no weight on the front other than the FEL I would expect it to try to lift anything and if it is too heavy the front end should come off the ground. My old Massey 1010 could move the pallet around and it's a smaller lighter tractor without an FEL.

The third problem was when I was shaving some sod off a high spot the tractor stopped and wouldn't go any further. No matter what forward position I pushed on the HST pedal it wouldn't budge. The wheels wouldn't even turn. I would be ok if they were spinning and I wasn't getting any traction but to just sit there and whine like a gutless wonder... I'm afraid even with 4WD a 1940's Farmall could out pull me

Other than appearing to have a whimpy hydro pump, if that's the problem, this would be a super tractor. So before I take it in to the dealer I want to find out if this is normal behavior or am I expecting too much from this tractor? I really think it should be able to out perform my 1010 but so far I'm not impressed.

 

[JerryG]

1010,
I don't remember which transmission you had before but if it wasn't a hydro they sure are different. The pedal is the gears so to speak. The more you push down, the higher the gear. If the tractor starts to labor, let up on the pedal and or drop down a range if letting up on the pedal doesn't do it. There are a lot of new hydro owners that use the hydro pedal for a gas pedal and it doesn't work that way. It's something that isn't instinctive. If you knew all of this please disregard the above.

 

[Massey1010]

I realize that the HST pedal position is similar to gears. What I don't get is why shouldn't the tires spin slowly if I only have the pedal pushed slightly? My tires haven't even been ballasted yet. I can just see that when I take it into the dealer to have it fixed I'm going to be told it is normal behavior or they are unable to find anything wrong with it. So I'm trying to find out if anyone else has experienced these same things with an HST CK20. When I take it in I want to be able to say that I've talked to other CK20 owners and they say this is not normal behavior.

 

[joe48]

"The third problem was when I was shaving some sod off a high spot the tractor stopped and wouldn't go any further. No matter what forward position I pushed on the HST pedal it wouldn't budge."

I hate to ask and don't mean to be insulting but, that sounds like you were in high range. If you were in low range you may have been taking too big a bite, or caught on a root or rock.
With my CK20, I typically do ground engaging,back blabe , dirt scoop, york rake ,or loading FEL in low range between 2000-2500 rpm. If youre running like this and it still stalls the hydro either youre overloading(taking too big a bite) or you may have a problem with the pressure relief setting on the hydro. Your dealer should have the pressure guages and tools to test and adjust the relief settings, (this is a dealer job.)
Don't expect a hydro machine to act exactly like a gear drive. It won't just spin the tires when encountering excess load or stall like a gear machine, which is basically the "pressure relief" that protects a gear machine hopefully before you burn out the clutch or break something.
A hydro is THE choice for ground engaging work, mowing and other jobs that require alot of manuevering. Also when you have a number of different or inexperienced operators a hydro will save you alot of money on repairs, like clutch replacement and broken parts. This from experience when I had a number of loader tractors on a job I would be replacing clutches once a year or more, when I went to hydro or torque converter drives, no more repairs like that.

 

[George2615]

I Just got my CK20, 2006 year, and have been trying it out but I've run across some problems that I'm thinking I have something really wrong with my tractor. I put a set of clamp on forks on the bucket and lifted an object on a pallet that weighs about 4-5 hundred pounds. The tractor seemed to lift it just fine but then when I wanted to move, the steering wheel would barely turn. I would turn it and the front wheels would very slowly turn and eventually catch part way up with the steering wheel. Is this typical of power steering when you have a load on the front? This seems most unacceptable to me.

The other problem is when I put a set of forks on the three point and tried to lift a pallet of salt bags that weighs aprox 600 lbs it would not lift it no matter how high I set the throttle without going above PTO speed. With no weight on the front other than the FEL I would expect it to try to lift anything and if it is too heavy the front end should come off the ground. My old Massey 1010 could move the pallet around and it's a smaller lighter tractor without an FEL.

The third problem was when I was shaving some sod off a high spot the tractor stopped and wouldn't go any further. No matter what forward position I pushed on the HST pedal it wouldn't budge. The wheels wouldn't even turn. I would be ok if they were spinning and I wasn't getting any traction but to just sit there and whine like a gutless wonder... I'm afraid even with 4WD a 1940's Farmall could out pull me

Other than appearing to have a whimpy hydro pump, if that's the problem, this would be a super tractor. So before I take it in to the dealer I want to find out if this is normal behavior or am I expecting too much from this tractor? I really think it should be able to out perform my 1010 but so far I'm not impressed.

About your 1st problem. Are you using a counterweight / ballast on back? You probably need it. A counter weight will help take some weight off the front tires. Also make sure your tires are aired up. Another thing is you are lifting 4-500# on a set of forks out front. That puts more weight on the front end.

Problem 2 relates to the same thing. According to the site I looked at your 3Pt can lift 1109#. That is probably the rating at 24" out. You have put 600# plus a pallet on a set of forks that stick out probably 4' behind your 3 Pt arms. I'm guessing the forks, pallet and salt total about 8-900# but sticking out as far as they are multiplies the weight your 3Pt sees and its probably over your relief valve setting which won't allow you to lift it.
(relate this to yourself by holding a 5# bag of sugar in your hand close to your body. No problem right. I'm sure you could lift it over your head a few times. Now hold your hand straight out and place the 5# sugar bag on your hand and see how long it feels like a 5# weight. After 30 seconds at full arms length try to lift the bag straight up. The leverage will be against you doing this). Leverage affects your loader and 3Pt the same way.

Problem 3 may have been answered. Use your lowest range for this task.

 

[Dmace]

Have you checked the hydraulic fluid? Maybe it's a little low.

When using the FEL, I run it at around 2200-2300 rpms and even with a good load in the loader like the wood in my avatar or a large rock, the tires have no problem turning with ease. Maybe the tires were up beside a rock or something. Either way, something is not right, these little tractors are incredibly powerful.

 

[Bob_Young]

I don't know the CK20 from beans, Massey, but problem #3 wouldn't be normal for my HST Kubota B7610. I've been pulling out tree roots using the rippers on my BB. When I hit one that's too big, it sits there and spins the wheels. I'm in 4WD low when I do this.

The other problems don't sound right either. My Kubotas will lift the front wheels if the 3PH load is too heavy...and I don't need more than idle RPM to do it. I have noticed that steering can get quite stiff when a heavy load is in the bucket, but the wheels keep up with the steering wheel....of course the Kioti may be designed differently.

Sounds like something is limiting the performance of your hydraulic system.
Bob

 

[Massey1010]

Thanks for the info. I was in low range when doing all this work. The guy that delivered the tractor said to always use low range unless I was traveling down the road.

So am I correct in understanding that an HST tractor will not spin tires unless the ground is slippery?

I'm going to go ahead and give my dealer a call since I believe that something has got to be wrong with it. I could see if I was stepping from a larger tractor down to the CK20 I might be expecting too much but since I'm just comparing it to my smaller 1010 I think I have a right to expect a little more out of it.

---

ro·tis·ser·ie n', A Ferris wheel for chickens.

 

[Dmace]

So am I correct in understanding that an HST tractor will not spin tires unless the ground is slippery?

It depends on the machine really. If you don't have enough weight for the power of your machine then yeah, it will spin the tires. I have a loader, backhoe and loaded tires (+500lbs) and she will hit the relief before spinning the tires. With the backhoe removed and no load in the FEL, just grading with the bucket, it will spin the tires when digging too much.

Don't let fools tell you that spinning tires is a measure of how much power a tractor has, it is instead a measure of how little weight it has. If your tires are spinning then you are losing power to the ground instead of performing work.

 

[joe48]

I would suggest you contact the dealers service mgr. and ask him to come out to your place and watch you run it and give you advice, then have him run it so he can experience the issues first hand and decide what the malfunction is and so you can see the proper operating techniques.
This will go a long way to determine if there's a machine or operator problem or a combination of both.
The dealer should be more than willing to help you out this way. If not go to the owner, if they are competent and truly interested in their customers then they will be more than happy to help. A machine dealer depends on relations, service, repeat sales , for his livelyhood. If not he won't last long.
Also you could forward this thread to the Kioti national customer service mgr., for his reaction and to make him aware of the issue. When I did that I got good response from Kioti, (my dealer has been very good)
( backgound; I was service mgr for a major Honda,M-B, BMW dealer, so BTDT)
Good Luck, Joe