Had the Wetlands Engineer out to the place

[Raddad]

If you understand the science behind wetlands preservation and you care about future generations and their quality of life it's hard to understand why people place their individual property rights above the wellfare of others. You can't be a true sportsman and not be an environmentalist. Pretty soon we won't have any birds to hunt or fish to catch. There are no freshwater fish left in America that don't come with some health warning for consumption by pregnant women. Wetlands are more important than your current understanding allows. Please read more scientific data on this important subject? You are what you read.

Please stop focusing on yourself and work for the greater good of America.

 

[Timber]

Timber: Get all this good news in writing ASAP. A verbal OK from the council is all and good until they change their minds unless there is an official record of it. Was there minutes taken of the the meeting by a stenographer? If so, get a copy of the minutes. Nothing is more valuable than written correspondence from a govermenent agency several years down the road. You will eventually sell that land and this may not come back to haunt you for another 20 years. Guess what? No one will remember anything about those conversations in 20 years. An official letter on county stationery will be your get out of jail free ticket in 20 years.

I have to agree with you, I am concerned about that myself. I am going to have it surveyed again and want to have the wetland borders redocumented. I am also thinking of joining the board my self. I am about 25 miles from the Boston city limit and this is now the border town to the wilderness area. My home is at the entrance of 157 acre forest and it is even larger because this forest extends into 1 other towns. I am staying hear for good so I think it would be in my best interest to become involved with the town government. My interest would be on the environment committee. I bought land in a town 25 years ago and as the area developed the town changed to a city government. In 3 years time I saw changes I never would have imagine take place. Almost every property sub divided and condos and apartment complexes went up everywhere. Now it needed new waterline and sewage traffic lighting, and larger roads that were done by eminent domain. My nice little country town changed over night. I would like to see this town not go that way. I like it hear with the forest, rivers and wildlife. I would like to stand in the way of encroaching city limits

 

[mike69440]

After 8 months and $12 K spent on doing it Legal and getting all the designs and permits, I can say that in the end the only ones who will benefit will be the State of NH and the Wallets of all the people I retained to get the permits. In the end, no more or less wetland will be harmed if I would have done what frankly most people do. i.e. "Just do it."

I really am kind of sour on the whole process, especially where so many get away with destroying the environment and the conservation types like myself get badgered, regulated, and pay for nothing.

Seems like the regulators go after the little guy, but look the other way or take payouts from the strip mine and plutonium dump guys, rather than offering real help and advice on how to preserve the environment.

At least I have the permits. Now to find heavy equipment operators who can correctly build Septic, wildlife pond and complete the road to plan.

During that time I kept the B7200 and L39 and my back busy rebuilding the existing roads, clearing, wall building, and general landscaping.

I suppose also that I had the time to read and reserach what I was planning, so Maybe i won't make some big costly damaging mistake.

Interesting stuff. I may retire someday and get my septic designer and installer licenses.

 

[N80]

I really am kind of sour on the whole process, especially where so many get away with destroying the environment and the conservation types like myself get badgered, regulated, and pay for nothing.

Seems like the regulators go after the little guy, but look the other way or take payouts from the strip mine and plutonium dump guys, rather than offering real help and advice on how to preserve the environment.

That's just the thing. They make laws that only the good guys (me!) are willing to or required to follow. They hassle the wrong ones and this in turn makes the good guys (me!) less tolerant of the law. They make us jump through hoops and take our money to accomplish just exactly what we intended to accomplish from the outset......because we were already responsible citizens. A law or regulation that troubles those who would have followed the principle of the law anyway is the worst kind of law there is.

I never had to deal with any wetlands board, but the local DHEC folks gave me way too much grief to get a little septic tank for a one bathroom, two bedroom cabin on a county road that has homes at the end of it WITH NO RUNNING WATER OR PROPER SEWAGE DISPOSAL!

Can you tell that I'm bitter about _that_ process? Ugh, bureaucrats.....quite frankly, I don't think the TBN profanity filter should even let that word through.

 

[Doc_Bob]

After 8 months and $12 K spent on doing it Legal and getting all the designs and permits, I can say that in the end the only ones who will benefit will be the State of NH and the Wallets of all the people I retained to get the permits. In the end, no more or less wetland will be harmed if I would have done what frankly most people do. i.e. "Just do it."

Sadly, just do it works. Asking to do it does not. My neighbor put 10 loads of fill into a wetlands. His horses can now get to his pasture. The State yelled at him and that was it. Fill still there 6 years later. And it looks like fill.

I learned. Had 15 loads of fill put into a 50X50 area of wetlands. Got yelled at by City. Told to move the fill. Next day, bull dozer "moved" it. NOT! The guy just spread it around. Farmer planted beans on ground. Fill now "gone". Ground now "dry". No more yelling. Two years of asking resulted in "no way". 2500 sq ft of dry land out of 5 acres of wetlands. Now I can have a driveway, which the 2500 sq ft of wet area denied me to the rest of my property.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And to think, I pay these guys salary with my taxes. If I was a developer, the request would have been granted. But I am just a little homeowner, so request denied. Good thing I learned from my neighbor. I hated doing it.

Bob

 

[HomeBrew2]

... it's hard to understand why people place their individual property rights above the wellfare of others ...

WHAT !?!? Could you expound on that statement a little more comrad?

 

[bigballer]

An adjacent local county government has had a CAO (critical areas ordinance) for several years but just started enforcing it and have made the regs even tighter. In that county, landowners are unable to touch 50% of their property. This includes clearing, grading, etc. If you have a stream running through your property there is a 100ft setback on either side and you are allowed to do absolutely nothing with it. Friends recently wanted to clean up their stream by taking out deadfall. A neighbor ratted them out and they were fined heavily and are required to replant 2x the number of trees that they removed. mind you these trees were already down. I know my county is going to pass similar rules in the coming years. In mean time I am doing what I can to clean up my property. btw, I do not have wetlands or any sensitive area on my land, unless you consider Himalayan Blackberry overgrowth sensitive.

cheers,
bigballer

 

[Timber]

I think as time goes on and people become more aware of environmental concerns things will just become stricter. I know in this area hear property value has gone so high that the developers are cramming in as many homes as the can onto the lots they have. It isn't just the space the home sits on but the infrastructure. Sewage and roads and all the runoff; Then there is the disruption of the underground water table. I have a much bigger problem with developers and business disrupting the environment than the average home owner. Developers are motivated by money where the homeowner is motivated by the beauty of there homes. How ever they can unknowingly do there share of damage too! I am a believer of codes and permits, and planning boards as much of a nuisance as they are. Over the years I have seen people build things, wire things with no clue as to what they are doing. Homes burn to the ground and building collapse on people and property! Dam the wrong thing and flood your neighbor out. Sadly sometimes people need to be protected from them selves. It does create problems for the people that know what they are doing. The problem is even bigger if the people on the board know less than you.

 

[ccsial]

If you understand the science behind wetlands preservation and you care about future generations and their quality of life it's hard to understand why people place their individual property rights above the wellfare of others. You can't be a true sportsman and not be an environmentalist. Pretty soon we won't have any birds to hunt or fish to catch. There are no freshwater fish left in America that don't come with some health warning for consumption by pregnant women. Wetlands are more important than your current understanding allows. Please read more scientific data on this important subject? You are what you read.

Please stop focusing on yourself and work for the greater good of America.

I sincerely hope your property is the first one they confiscate.

 

[N80]

I'm sure we're drifting too far from good 'tractor' related discussion, but there are but a few foundational elements upon which this country was established. I'm not talking about freedom of this or freedom of that, I'm not talking about pursuing happiness or even inalienable rights. The truth of the matter is that the philosphical foundations of this country stem from two basic elements. The first is the Judeo/Christian ethic. Revisionist historians and leftists will debate this. Even without that debate, the J/C ethic is currently being left behind and is becoming irrelevant. The last remaining element is private property ownership and all that it entails in regard to individual responsibility and the respect of other people's property.

The J/C ethic is almost gone. "They" are working on private property ownership with vigor and a great deal of success. When "my land" is truly "your land" it will be time to look for another mother land or start living in a compound.

However, I do think there needs to be a distinction between corporate vs private property. This causes a lot of confusion. But there is a big difference when property is owned by a headless, soulless body of shareholders compared to a piece of property with your name or my name on it. Corporations have only one loyalty and one ethic and that is the almighty stock value. When your name is on the property, you take responsibility of it. If the government and its citizens make the assumption that Giant General Corporation isn't responisible with natural resources (and it probably isn't) and apply that same assumption to me, then not only are they wrong but they are saying, in effect, that no citizen can be responsible for natural resources. If _no_ citizen can be responsible for his own natural resources then how are _all_ citizens (i.e. the government) going to be responsible for it?

I want the government to monitor and regulate corporate property but stay off of mine.