Planters Hairiest thing that's gone wrong 'while using 3pt logging winch

[firec]

I agree with above comments. Always pull as straight as possible and never pull unless the blade is dug in. I've had my Fransguard for 6 years and have used it a lot. The snatch block is a must for pulling trees out that you can't get a pull on. I also have long rope on mine and try to be off to the side when doing a heavy pull just in case something goes wrong. My Fransguard has a lever that stops the cable from free spooling when pulling, I always have that on in case a cable breaks.

 

[Hamor]

I know that this is some really good advice and I thank you all for replying.
If there is anyone else that might have any other tips or even close calls pulling out logs or anything else that could happen or has happened to you that you can four warn others to beware of,
PLEASE take the time to write about it .
I'm sure that this thread will help many a new "WINCH ERS" take heed of what can happen even if you think your doing everything right.
Maybe like:
What pto speed you run your tractor at while pulling?
Is there any tricks that could be used if you don't have a snatch block , and your up against a stump ( and alone working)?
Do you use your winch to pull down tree's that you've cut but are leaning back into standing trees holding it up?
Do you try and put anymore than one tree per choker if there small (4"-6")?
How much cable do you have on your winch and size?
Does it matter at all how much cable you have out , to weight of load?
Is it better to be as close (1'-2')to the front of log when hooking up the cable to it ?
If you are trying to pull a log or logs and it's not doing it , could you try and up the pto speed or not?
Do you ever pull using cable with lock on ( The winch)and move tractor forward to get a better straight pull ?
Do you always pull from the butt end of a tree?
These many sound like dump Q's but to someone who has never done this before it's all good stuff to know.
Any of these that can get a reply on would also be of great help in learning to me and others.
Thanks!

 

[motownbrowne]

I'll take a stab at a few questions. I have a farmi 351 that I haven't used much yet, but done a lot of reading. First, read the manual a couple of times, then spend a couple of days reading about skidding with a 3 point winch on forestryforum.com there is a lot of great info there well worth reading.

Most of what I have read is that you will want to keep your PTO speed low while winching. The winch has a clutch, so it is possible to slow your winch speed by slipping the clutch, but better to keep the throttle low so you can fully engage the clutch. If you want more speed, throttle up. If you can't pull an object, and you are pulling your clutch rope all the way, the throttle won't help, you have met your match and need to change your plan.

Regarding the pull at different cable length, the rated pull )at least for my model) is given with the cable fully extended, giving the drum the smallest diameter and greatest pulling power.

Regarding how close to the log to be, the idea is to stay on a safe skid road and pull the log to you, so getting close is not necessary. If you are 1' away, don't bother winching, just hook up the chain and go.

One thing I've seen recommended is a skidding cone or boat to place under the leading end of the log to reduce digging into the soil or snow. A workable boat could be made from an old car hood, or there are fabricated units for sale.

I've heard of using the winch to pull the tree down, seems like a reasonable idea if you can do it safely. A hung up tree is a VERY dangerous thing to be around, one should get a good understanding of how to do this safely before attempting it.

Pulling from either end is common practice, felling toward the winch allows you to forget about the stump, which is handy and I have seen one of the benefits of felling this way listed as being able to pull a hanging tree down like in the last paragraph, though I don't fully know the best way to get a line up the where you need to pull from.

Multiple small stems per choker should be fine, I've seen some incredible pictures of these winches pulling lots of wood at once.

Regarding moving the tractor mid pull, I've never heard of it, but might be useful at times. Keeping the pull straight is very important, a snatch block seems like the best tool for this, and are pretty cheap for how useful they are. The self-releasing ones look really nice, but $300 is pretty steep; the $70 regular ones seem like a good thing to have.

Finally, utility tractors are not really designed for use in the woods. They are a very versatile tool, but aren't designed to protect the machine or the operator the same way a skidder is. This doesn't mean you can't skid logs with them, but it does mean that you NEED to be EXTRA CAREFUL. The addition of a Falling Object Protection System seems like a very good idea as well as a skid plate to protect the undercarriage of the machine. Also, if possible set your tires as wide as you can. Logging is a very dangerous undertaking, professionally or just a few trees a year needs to be approached very cautiously. I highly recommend looking into taking forestry classes if they are offered in your area. In Wisconsin we have an organization called FISTA, the Forest Industry Safety Training Association that offers chainsaw training at several levels for a very reasonable price. I took a full day course from them at the recommendation of someone in the industry and was very glad I did, it was a huge amount of information. The class was inside for three hours and then five hours in the field. If I had to recall three things off hand from the class they would be 1: Never work alone 2:Tell your partner where the First Aid kit is (you'd hate to bleed out while your friend searches under the seats of your truck) and 3: Wear all of the safety equipment, chaps, cut resistant boots, eye protection, ear protection, hard hat, gloves, everything.

Have fun out there and BE SAFE.

 

[Gordon Gould]

What pto speed you run your tractor at while pulling?

1200 to 1800 rpm. Slow in woods faster in easy open terain.

Is there any tricks that could be used if you don't have a snatch block , and your up against a stump ( and alone working)?

A nice rugged can't hook or peavy can be a be help. Saw an angle on the log butt to glance off stump. Use a slider as a block choked highi adjacent tree. ( see photo ) This can ruin cable if the angle is sharp or pull long.

Do you use your winch to pull down tree's that you've cut but are leaning back into standing trees holding it up?

Yes - Use a long cable so the tractor and you are well clear of falling and flying branches



Do you try and put anymore than one tree per choker if there small (4"-6")?

Yes - Small trees slip out easy because they are light. Wrapping chain twice helps

How much cable do you have on your winch and size? 165' of 5/16" cable

Does it matter at all how much cable you have out , to weight of load?

Smaller diameter drum (more cable out) has stronger pull but if you are working that close to the limit cut the log in two or use a block to double pull

Is it better to be as close (1'-2')to the front of log when hooking up the cable to it ?

The closer to the end the safer and easier. If you choke to far back and the butt gets caught on a snag it is possible that the hole log will stand up in the air and sling shot right at you. Lighter logs will do this easier than heavy long. This has happened to me.

If you are trying to pull a log or logs and it's not doing it , could you try and up the pto speed or not?

No - I would cut the log if to heavy or pull it away from the snag if that is the problem.

Do you ever pull using cable with lock on ( The winch)and move tractor forward to get a better straight pull ?

No - If I want to reposition the tractor I do it with the cable slack. If you are jigging around in the woods you don't want the tree pulling you over sideways when you paying attention to where you are going and not the cable.

Do you always pull from the butt end of a tree?

No - which ever is easiest winching. Pulling the top first is easier to get over slash piles because top is lighter. When skidding back to landing having the butts trailing in the rear makes a harder pull. Picking up the butts for the skid makes more weight on rear wheels and better traction.

These many sound like dump Q's but to someone who has never done this before it's all good stuff to know.

I saw no dumb questions.
Another thing. Watch out for dead trees. This is important. If you are winching a log and there is a dead tree say 20 feet from the tractor and you on the edge of the winch path and your log hits the dead tree it can come crashing down on you or your tractor in a hurry. This has also happened to me. Or if you are skidding a hitch back to the landing and you snag a tree behind you with the hitch it will pull the tree right down on top of you. You won't know what happened it is so fast.

So go slow. Be observant. Be careful. And have fun

Any of these that can get a reply on would also be of great help in learning to me and others.
Thanks!

.... gg

 

[CobyRupert]

Maybe like:
What pto speed you run your tractor at while pulling?
I run tractor anywhere between 1250 and 1500 engine rpm , where, I think, 2250 engine rpm equals 540 rpm, so a little over (540/2=) 270 pto rpm. On, mine the pto shaft is at a steep angle to be running a lot of power through it. Plus I have a 75hp (60-something pto hp) on a smaller winch made for a Cat 1 hitch/tractor.

Is there any tricks that could be used if you don't have a snatch block , and your up against a stump ( and alone working)?
Hate to admit it, but in a jam on a tree that had an unexpected back lean , :confused3:I've used another tree, or one of the keyhole sliders to apply a little pressure, but I wouldn't winch 100' of cable like that. I also carry a log roller (cant hook) on the winch to (try and) roll a log if it's pulled against another stump. Sometimes it even works and that avoid time rigging a snatch block.

Do you use your winch to pull down tree's that you've cut but are leaning back into standing trees holding it up?
Yes. It's handy and safe to let the tree fall where it's leaning and just use the winch to pull it off and do the trimming at a central location. BUT it has to fall enough to break the tree's hinge, else you might hang up your saw and/or risk the tree butt kicking out trying to cut it when it's leaning. And depending on the still attached hinge's thickness, the winch may not be able to rip it off without cutting.

Do you try and put anymore than one tree per choker if there small (4"-6")?
Yes, I've even pulled in 4 logs, bound them with one big chain and attached that chain to the winch blade slots and gone grabbed 4 more.

How much cable do you have on your winch and size? 165', 3/8"

Does it matter at all how much cable you have out , to weight of load? No. (Edit: Other's have a valid point that with more cable off the spool, the winches "gear ratio" does technically improve)

Is it better to be as close (1'-2')to the front of log when hooking up the cable to it ?
Yes, I think so. I try to leave enough choker chain so that the keyhole slider is just past the end of the tree, this slack lets the keyhole sliders stack up on each other when you winch all of them in..

If you are trying to pull a log or logs and it's not doing it , could you try and up the pto speed or not?
You could try, how much torque you can pass through the clutch of the winch before it slips (burns!) is the controlling factor. I don't think the max. torque the clutch can pass through is dependent on the rpms (though in some cases the faster moving mass of the log might help the log blast through what would otherwise stop it). I try not to let the clutch slip and wear, so I watch that the cable is always moving.

Do you ever pull using cable with lock on ( The winch)and move tractor forward to get a better straight pull ?
No, I just adjust the angle of tractor without the cable locked, or before pulling the cable out. I don't understand.

Do you always pull from the butt end of a tree? No.

Couple other things I find useful:

Pulling long logs around corners: Keep a close watch on logs when pulling (locked winch) around corners. Note how much slack you have on the cable between winch and logs and how it's tracking so that log ends don't come around the side of the winch blade and wipe out the chainsaw hanging there or the owner's manual case, etc.. Readjust slack/ height as required.

Don't wear loose clothing around spinning pto shaft if your winch is the type where your have to reach and unbind cable lock.

I try to prevent chocker chains slipping off when pulling 4 logs, I found that running the hook under the log and hooking the chain at the side of the trunk opposite the side that the cable will be pulling from gives the chocker chain a "twisting grip" (twisting towards the top of the log) that seems to hold better than other configurations, plus the hook ends up on top and stays accessible for when you want to disconnect.
Similarly, I found it best when the open face of the chocker chain's hook faces away from the winch towards the far end of the tree. Though occasionally they still rattle and come unhooked when 4 logs are being winch in.

 

[Hamor]

CobyRupert I found that running the hook under the log and hooking the chain at the side of the trunk opposite the side that the cable will be pulling from gives the chocker chain a "twisting grip" (twisting towards the top of the log

After reading this if you had to roll a butt of a log that's up against a stump or rock off to the side to clear it, would using this way of hooking up with the choker on the side of the log roll the log over? If you couldn't move it with a peeve.
I've picked up more about winching tips tonight on this thread then I've found anywhere else.
(More ! More ! I'm hooked and can't get up.)

 

[CobyRupert]

CobyRupert I found that running the hook under the log and hooking the chain at the side of the trunk opposite the side that the cable will be pulling from gives the chocker chain a "twisting grip" (twisting towards the top of the log

if you had to roll a butt of a log that's up against a stump or rock off to the side to clear it, would using this way of hooking up with the choker on the side of the log roll the log over? If you couldn't move it with a peeve.

It think it can help..... sometimes. Your mileage may vary.
Lately when gathering trees that are cut into 24' logs, by running the cable in a zig-zag fashion between logs that are side-by-side rather than grabbing end-to-end sections, the farther logs will get pulled to the center, rather than pushing into the closer log cut from the same tree which usually results in that tree's chocker chain falling off. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f45FiPvN6Tw
Another tip: If you hang your chainsaw on the skid, hang it on the side that is on the outside of any turns you need to make.

 

[Gordon Gould]

You will learn lots of stuff on your own as you go. Like most "tricks" you will find sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. You are right about being able to roll a log while winching by wrapping the chain and cable around it a couple times.
I think that you will come to the conclusion that what you really need is a snatch block or two. Then you can direct your pull anywhere. You can leave the tractor in the clear with a nice flat space behind it to build your hitch. I try to keep my tractor on a woods road where it is safe especially in snow where you don't know what is under you. Here are some snatch block set ups.

Lines set to pull several trees up a bank.







Setup for pulling logs that are 90 degrees to the road then turning them in the road.



Here is a hung up wind throw that split. I couldn't pull it straight back because it was blocked by a big tree
I didn't want to damage so I pulled it off the stump sideways before I used the snatch block again to pull it back to get it down.



Last winter I got a self releasing snatch block (new toy). Save a lot of walking and rerigging. I made this little video the first time I tried it. Its a small log but you can see how it works. Same thing - log laying in the trees and regen I didn't want to damage. So I set a snath block to get it out and turn it 90 degrees.

SnatchBlock - YouTube

EDIT: BTW - I consider a snatch block to be an important safty device. It allows you to stay clear from dangerous situations when you have to deal with them and takes away the dangerous bulling and jamming associated trees in a bad position.

gg

 

[CobyRupert]

^ Nice pics!

Seeing the deep snow reminded me off another tip: Always set down your chocker chains, wedges, gloves, etc.. on top of a log or stump, especially if you're carrying a few of them at a time. You might think it's easy to keep count & track 6' long chains, but....

 

[The Fred]

I ALWAYS keep a cellphone turned on ready to access with one hand.
I ALWAYS leave my headlights on and machine running so IF I get in a bad situation my wife (or whomever) can see you in the woods when they come looking.

My wife's family were professional loggers most of their life, her dad had one employee death when a limb hit him on the noggin rendering him useless and his wife, 2 kids fatherless.

Wife's uncle dies 2 years ago skidding a hitch with a cable skidder when a tree he was using as a pivot to turn his hitch broke and killed him, he never showed up for supper that night, his wife went looking and found him in the woods.

It's always the things you don't think about such as a tree that is rotten at the stump rendering control while felling useless. Never and I mean never cut a tree completely off the stump while felling. A few years ago I dropped a rotten tree and it broke at the stump, twisted around and landed on my tractor. This was after the wife commented about me moving the machine before I cut; duh. A grand for a gauge cluster on a Cub Cadet.

Think twice, act once and be safe, Fred