Hand held police, fire scanners ??

   / Hand held police, fire scanners ??
  • Thread Starter
#21  
As someone involved in the implementation and maintenance of the radio system for my company...., there is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding radio systems these days....the majority of Public Safety, Fire, railroad, utility companies, etc have gone to P25 Digital Trunking systems, largely for the interoperability. Part of the P25 specifications demands that no one radio manufacturer can make it so only their radios will work on their system, and this was done largely to take away Motorola's huge monopoly hold on the 2-way radio market. This also has the benefit of allowing smaller agencies with much smaller budgets to have access to better and larger radio systems without the capital investment of a full system themselves (generally we're talking many millions of dollars to implement a full system). Basically this means that a smaller agency can have access to our radio system's "backbone" to obtain the statewide coverage that we have without having to purchase and maintain all the "behind the scenes" equipment to support it. It also makes it very easy for their personnel to communicate with our personnel over the radio system. Kind of like a small company leasing space on a radio tower without having to own or lease the land, erect the tower, provide power to run it, or maintain it. They only supply the antenna to hang on that tower, and pay a leasing fee for it. We actually several agreements with the Forest Service, BLM, and a couple smaller public safety agencies that do this on our system.

P25 Digital Trunking in and of itself does NOT prevent the use of scanners to receive the signals, nor the ability to decode the signals into usable audio that you'll understand. Yes, the older analog scanners will not do this, but it's not that they won't receive the signals, rather they just lack the ability to decode the digital into audio you can hear. Look up P25 scanners - many of them on the market. For the most current support, you'll want one that supports P25 Phase 2. Generally all you need is the scanner, and the WACN ID number of the system you want to monitor programmed in, then you're good to go. Several websites are out there that list many of the agencies across the country, and their WACN, such as RadioReference.com - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

As far as the encryption goes, yes, there are an increasing number of agencies utilizing this, but it's rare to find _ALL_ of their radio calls being encrypted as it places a HUGE load on the radio system for no real gain. My company's radio system rivals the size, complexity and cost of what major metropolitan police agencies would have, and less than 1% of our radio calls are encrypted. What you'll often find now are general dispatch channels are not encrypted, and some car-to-car channels are not, but things like channels intended for tatical operations where high levels of security are needed, or channels for things like officer to dispatch for verifying people's identification/license status/etc where personal identifying information will be transmitted, are encrypted. There is also a very high number of operations that are done via cell phone and mobile computer these days, which no scanner on the market will decode without large amounts of modification. Yes, it is possible to monitor cell phone conversations today, but it is _very_ involved to do that set up, and very illegal. You're not doing it with the help of a YouTube video and cutting a resistor out of a radio/scanner, like we did back in the 80s and 90s with scanners to pick up on analog cell phones and cordless phones. Today, those frequencies are typically locked out of the scanners via firmware programming, and not easily bypassed.

Given the rise of cell phones and wide area internet access via smartphones and aircards in laptops, the truth today is that unlike in the 70s and 80s, there's just not that much interesting chatter going across the radio waves any more. Even just 10 years ago, I did a LOT of my work over the radio, and now..the only time my truck radio or handheld radio even gets turned on is when I'm far enough out in the field that my cell phone won't work, or we're in the middle of a major disaster that has taken the cell network down.
Great information the unit that I am considering to purchase is P25 phase 2.Thanks for the great write up you supplied.
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #22  
^^ Even if they're in the clear on VHF, some of them use their own 10-codes and verbal or numerical signals to an extent that someone just passing by wouldn't know what they're talking about.

This bears repeating. Even if one can follow the trunked call, understanding the 10 codes and such will be an issue.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #23  
I hear you moss but when backups happen as quick with some of these protests I believe a scanner might be a better tool.

Something like the Google Waze app would be better. Available on iPhone as well. There's been a number of times I've seen that app show traffic backups minutes after they occur. Even having a technical & technology career background (I have communications equipment that ties into electric grid monitoring...we usually know about a problem in the grid, and the extent well before the 1st person even calls in), I'm still amazed at the speed that these apps pick up and report such things.
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #24  
Our last outage on the weekend. I notice that all these APPS are getting more complicated and the information is not available. A lot of fancy stuff, and no information. Or very vague generizations. Like Pending. Crews dispatched. Then they say, resoral at 15:00. comes on at 10:00. What's the point of it? Having your own sources is always better. Drive around the block and talk to the crews.

Same with the various weather APPS. Always talking of "possible" severe weather. Last week, it looked like a Tornado was upon me. Checked the APP. No alerts in affect! GREAT (dysfunctional) technology!

Before COVID, back early this year, I started listening to Air Traffic Control. I was working on a project in that band, and always wondered about the air traffic that travels far over my head, coming and going to western Canada. Man, talk about hard to decipher. Police talk is a cinch, compared to that. And FAST!
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #25  
Our last outage on the weekend. I notice that all these APPS are getting more complicated and the information is not available. A lot of fancy stuff, and no information. Or very vague generizations. Like Pending. Crews dispatched. Then they say, resoral at 15:00. comes on at 10:00. What's the point of it? Having your own sources is always better. Drive around the block and talk to the crews.

Sounds like you're talking about an utility outage. Those time frames are based on SLAs - Service Level Agreement. At my company, crews have two SLAs to meet - acceptance and resolution. Acceptance being the crew taking the service call, and being assigned to it. It will be in a pending state until that happens. For an electrical outage, this time is typically 15 minutes. The 2nd SLA, resolution, is typically 4-8 hours, depending on several factors such as location of the outage, how many people are affected, and severity of the outage (there's more factors that can play in to it, but these are the bigger ones).

Once the call is accepted, the ETA of the restoral is based on the resolution SLA time, and this will be set even before the crew arrives on site to inspect the damage. Of course, if they arrive to find significant damage, the ETA may very well be adjusted further out. They may also find that it's a very simple repair, such as a failed fuse or relay, which means that service will be restored very quickly and much sooner than the initial ETA. This usually makes the customers much happier.

The reason you'll see vague descriptions is that most of this is automated now. In our case, our monitoring equipment will detect a failure in the grid somewhere, which will set an alarm condition in the monitoring system. This alarm triggers an automatic service ticket, and that specific type of service ticket will trigger multiple dispatches to the appropriate crews that service that type of failure in that service area. This all happens in a matter of minutes, and most often, before the 1st customer even reports a problem. It's rare that someone reports an issue before we know about it. The monitoring equipment today is also sophisticated enough to detect issues within the grid even before it results in an outright outage. Small abnormalities in the grid performance will be caught by the monitors, and also trigger an automated ticket to investigate to our maintenance division.

That said, while our system will immediately detect a problem and dispatch service calls, there really isn't any way to know _exactly_ what happened or the extent of the failure until humans get involved to diagnose the failure. While the system can detect that we lost power in a certain area, or lost communications over a certain leg, we haven't yet reached a point in technology for there to be an automatic way of knowing things like "car knocked down pole", "transformer let out the magic smoke", or "some dipshit's drone/shotgun took out radio antenna" That part still involves humans putting eyes on the problem.
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #26  
This bears repeating. Even if one can follow the trunked call, understanding the 10 codes and such will be an issue.

Later,
Dan

I had a book back in the 90s that had a breakdown for nearly every dept across the US and what their 10 codes meant. I’m sure that all available on google today.
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ??
  • Thread Starter
#27  
I purchased the uniden bcd436hp scanner.Works great IMHO picks up local police/fire dept/state police.Thanks for the input.
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #28  
...
Before COVID, back early this year, I started listening to Air Traffic Control. I was working on a project in that band, and always wondered about the air traffic that travels far over my head, coming and going to western Canada. Man, talk about hard to decipher. Police talk is a cinch, compared to that. And FAST!

I have been using Live Flight Tracker - FlightAware to see what aircraft are flying over/near us. Works pretty well for the most part.

I was mostly interested in copter traffic. Some of them are military and they are easy to figure out since the Apaches and Black Hawks have a different sound to them than other helicopters. I don't think the military helicopters have turned on their ABS-D devices so they don't show up on the website. We can get many medical helicopters and those are the one I was really curious about. Usually we would hear/see medical helicopter a couple of times a week. This was partly based on direction of travel, ie, to/from hospitals. However, in the early stages of the virus lock down, life flights stopped around us. Then there was a spike of what I think were medical copters based on flying a different route so I got on the website to figure out what was happening. The spike in life flights were at a point where we were seeing a spike in virus deaths. :(

As soon as I started using the website, the copter traffic I was curious about, stopped. We were told years ago, that in NC, heart patients are only transported by helicopter from hospital to hospital. I have not seen or heard the "normal" helicopter flights at all, which I will take as a good sign.

The website is interesting to see what is up there flying around. I have been surprised at the large numbers of General Aviation aircraft that are flying, and especially, in bad weather.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #29  
I had a book back in the 90s that had a breakdown for nearly every dept across the US and what their 10 codes meant. I’m sure that all available on google today.

Yep, I remember those books, but always wondered about their accuracy. What I have seen on the Internet is not always accurate.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Hand held police, fire scanners ?? #30  
I had a book back in the 90s that had a breakdown for nearly every dept across the US and what their 10 codes meant.

If you're talking about Police Call, it was relatively accurate for frequencies and call signs simply because they were using the FCC databases. So called '10 codes' were less accurate because they relied on a few different standard versions and reports from listeners for any deviations. Activity codes were another matter. They were (and still are) generally established by the administration of each department and no two were alike. If Detroit PD sent units on an 8330, there was no publicly available guide to what it meant. You had to have one of the internal sheets to know they were going on a bomb threat.
 

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