Harbor Freight Tools that don't suck

[Gale Hawkins]

Skyco is not wrong. The only reason you have 12 volts is because these connections are only made to one 12 volt or two 6 volt batteries, depending on which type of batteries you are using. They are not made through the whole series of batteries. And using these lights only runs down one 12 volt battery, it does not supply the amount of amperage that would be available if you had all the batteries connected in parallel.

I can see the lack of the ability to upload or find a diagram of wiring the T-105 six 6v batteries in parallel for both a 12v/315 amp output and and in series for a 36v/105 amp output is confusing you and Skyco.

It may be better to say the diagram might be helpful to you and Skyco point out where my thinking is incorrect.

If you have an electrical golf cart go take a look at what I am talking about. The cart people have been pulling 12 volts and 36 volts at the same time for many years. Paralleling the three 12v configurations to give a balanced draw on all 6 batteries at the same time is the only new twist I am adding.

I am planning to put the 12v/315 amp output on the opposite side where the standard 36v/105 amp output is already.

I do not plan to use the golf cart as a welder.

Pat: we have six 105 amp rated T-105 6v batteries. Does my math add up correctly? I do plan to do some fusing to be on the safe side. Our 48v bank at work on the UPS for the server room has a huge inline fuse. To note again this 12v/315 amp output is to power a 12v DC to 120v AC 2000/4000 watt inverter to give us mobil AC source around the place. Using the electric pole saw is the first reason for it plus it is a lab for the kids to learn about electricity.

 

[jwstewar]

Skyco is right. I've done this with Mom & Dad's golf cart. It is a 36-v. electric E-Z Go. 6 - 6v Deep Cycle batteries. In order to take her golf cart to the county fair, it was required to have head & tail lights. Wired up two 35-watt tractor utility lights on the front and two LED clearance lights in the rear. Only hook them to 2 of the 6 batteries. Cart still runs on all 6. Granted when running the lights, I'm probably hurting 2 of the batteries a bit, but no more than they are used, age probably does them more harm. Probably should switch the front lights over to LEDs as well.

 

[tallyho8]

In figure 1 we have six 6 volt 100 amp batteries. The black lines show the way they are wired in series to give your golf cart 36 volts with 100 amps.

The red lines show how it would be wired in parallel to give 6 volts and 600 amps.

The yellow lines show how it is wired to run the lights off of 12 volts, 100 amps.

While it is connected in series with the black wires, if you attempt to connect any of the red wires in parallel, you will get a direct short.

It can be connected either way, to get 6 volts with 600 amps or 36 volts with 100 amps, but not at the same time.

Figure 2 shows how you can connect up three 12 volt series in parallel to get 12 volts 300 amps.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Skyco is right. I've done this with Mom & Dad's golf cart. It is a 36-v. electric E-Z Go. 6 - 6v Deep Cycle batteries. In order to take her golf cart to the county fair, it was required to have head & tail lights. Wired up two 35-watt tractor utility lights on the front and two LED clearance lights in the rear. Only hook them to 2 of the 6 batteries. Cart still runs on all 6. Granted when running the lights, I'm probably hurting 2 of the batteries a bit, but no more than they are used, age probably does them more harm. Probably should switch the front lights over to LEDs as well.

jwstewar if Skyco is right then does that mean you smoked the golf cart.

Look at tallyho8's second diagram. You did a third of this for the lights. If you did it for the other two 12v sources then you would have done what I plan to do.

At this point in my understanding I think you and Skyco are wrong. You have the series/parallel set up working to your parents golf cart. I think our lights pull about 4 amps.

At first it was hard for me to see how the series/parallel output could be on the same set of six batteries without sparks until it hit me that was what had already been done for many years with golf carts.

Physically and electricially are not always the same.

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_config.html

configuration 3 is what I am talking about doing over the top of the series 36v wiring. Hooking up lights across only one of the 12v sources is common and functional. I just need all three at the same time to power the inverter to run a electric motor.

 

[jwstewar]

jwstewar if Skyco is right then does that mean you smoked the golf cart.

Look at tallyho8's second diagram. You did a third of this for the lights. If you did it for the other two 12v sources then you would have done what I plan to do.

At this point in my understanding I think you and Skyco are wrong. You have the series/parallel set up working to your parents golf cart. I think our lights pull about 4 amps.

At first it was hard for me to see how the series/parallel output could be on the same set of six batteries without sparks until it hit me that was what had already been done for many years with golf carts.

Physically and electricially are not always the same.

U.S. Battery-Configurations

configuration 3 is what I am talking about doing over the top of the series 36v wiring. Hooking up lights across only one of the 12v sources is common and functional. I just need all three at the same time to power the inverter to run a electric motor.

Sorry, got my replies mixed. Guess that is what I get for 2 doing things at once. I did exactly what you are saying, the 12 volt lights running concurrently with the 36-volt golf cart.

 

[tallyho8]

Physically and electricially are not always the same.

U.S. Battery-Configurations

configuration 3 is what I am talking about doing over the top of the series 36v wiring. Hooking up lights across only one of the 12v sources is common and functional. I just need all three at the same time to power the inverter to run a electric motor.

You are right that "hooking up lights across only one of the 12v sources is common and functional." And you can make three different sources of 12v and run 3 different sets of 12v equipment. But you can not connect the three together in this scenario to make one heavy duty 12 volt circuit without causing a direct short.

If your golf cart is hooked up and running with the standard series wiring for 36 volts and you try to add configuration 3 wiring to it, there will be a direct short the second you hook up any one of the wires shown in configuration 3.

To prove my point, take a small gauge wire and touch it to any two of the connection points as seen in configuration 3. There will be an electrical arc that will immediately burn out your small wire. Be sure to wear welding gloves and have on a full face mask, helmet and jacket when you do this because one or more of the batteries may explode.

The reason that US BATTERY does not show the configuration that you want is because it does not exist because it is impossible.

 

[Skyco]

Correct. You can get ONE source of 12V power off a 36V string. You can even get 3 separate 12V sources*, but you CANNOT parallel 3 12V sources to increase current while simultaneously connected as a 36V string...


*That is assuming none of the grounds or "hots" are common at ANY point.

I second tallyho's experiment, if you insist on trying this the way you think it will work just use very small wire and wear protective gear...then report back to us what happened.

 

[tallyho8]

Gale, I will explain it to you very simply and easy to understand. If you connect something up to the + terminal and the - terminal of a battery, you will get the full voltage of the battery flowing through it. If it is a light or a motor of the correct voltage, it will light the light or run the motor.

If it is simply a battery cable connected to the + terminal and the - terminal on the same battery it will be a direct short and may even explode.

Now if you look at configuration 3 in your diagram, on a golf cart there is a cable running from the + terminal on the top left hand battery to the - terminal on the left center battery. In configuration 3 the - terminals on both of these batteries are connected together. This would make the + terminal and the - terminal of the top left hand battery connected together resulting in a short. :confused2:

Now maybe, we can return this thread back to Harbor Freight posts.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Thanks guys. After clearing 6" of new wet snow off over a quarter mile of hills on our county road to get down to state highway with the old JD 310B backhoe I am whipped. This was my first attempt at snow removal with the 7.5' bucket. The near slick R-4's did not do well when pushing a lot of snow up a steep leaning place in the road. I had to back a long ways to get back up out of the ditch.

I am now in the market for an 8' blade for the 265 MH. :thumbsup:

I will review my diagramming and check out the direct short that will occur. Using some 30 gauge wire to test any non conventional DC wild haired scheme is good advice. :laughing:

Two of the six batteries came with missing posts due to accidents in the past I guess.

 

[Johnbro]

I will review my diagramming and check out the direct short that will occur. Using some 30 gauge wire to test any non conventional DC wild haired scheme is good advice. :laughing:

Two of the six batteries came with missing posts due to accidents in the past I guess.

Uh, just use a voltmeter. No volts = safe to connect. Volts = not safe to connect. The point isn't what gets connected to what, it's whether it has a load or is a dead short. You can never directly wire the two terminals of a battery together without a short, unless there's a sufficient load in the middle. that's why you can run some 12v lights from one, two or three of the batteries, that's different from wiring them in parallel and series at the same time. That is impossible.