Has anybody tried the lead free ammo?

[Jchonline]

Lead ammo was outlawed in CA for hunting a decade ago. As far as I can tell Hunters are getting along just fine. For larger game its a no brainer. For pests and varmints its much harder to justify the additional cost.

 

[Jchonline]

The study seems very poor. The last deer I shot with a lead bullet certainly showed they do fragment. I shot a doe with my ML at about 12 yards frontal with a 250gr hollow point. I found a few flakes and barely a base of a bullet. It weighed 112 gr. It pretty much disintegrated.

12 yards ? You could have used a rock instead!

 

[Birdhunter1]

I shoot a Barnes triple shock all copper bullet in my 7 mm Weatherby magnum but I load it myself. I didn't choose the bullet for environmental reasons I chose that one after talking with a Weatherby technician when trying to find a good shooting load for that rifle. Of all the bullets and powders I tried he set me on the right track to turn that rifle into something that a person could actually hunt with.
I've found that the 140 TSX bullet I am using is very strong and will go in the front end of an Antelope and come out the other end rather easily even at 300 yards. I haven't missed one yet and the farthest I have had one run is about 30 steps.
I have experimented with the 85 gr TSX in my .243 on targets but have yet to hunt with it. I had loaded them up for a hog hunt and never even used it on one.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

These are the kind of articles that make me question "the science"

And I quote. "There have been abundant studies to show that the average, “fragmentation threshold” occurs at an impact velocity (not muzzle velocity) of approximately 2,260 feet per second, or Mach 2.0, which is the certainly the case for most centerfire rifles. Above that limit, fragmentation is very likely, and below it, fragmentation is rare."

The "science" has an approximate number of 2260 fps....not 2000 or 2500 but 2260. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of statistics will know that it takes a lot of samples to get a number that specific.

Then the "science" ignores the type of bullet used so are we to assume every type of lead core bullet acts this way? Partition bullets, exposed lead tip, ballistic tip, hollow points, round nose, spitzer, etc etc?

The .30/30 with a 170 gr bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps and only 1900 fps at 100 yards so it should "rarely fragment".

I shoot a .308. With the 165 gr bullet I get a MV of 2500 fps and at 200 yards it has dropped to 2100 fps...well under 2260 fps

Another "red flag" was the statement:
"It’s an irrefutable, scientific fact that lead ammunition is prone to fragmentation, sometimes into literally hundreds of tiny, even microscopic pieces, often losing up to 40 percent of their mass in tiny fragments that can stray up to 18 inches from the wound channel."

Really!!??? Fragments up to 18" from the wound channel.

I could go on, but you see my point. Just like our little friend the Chinese bug, "science " can be twisted to tell what ever story the writer wants to convey.

BTW, thanks for posting the article. It shows why "the science" should be either ignored or questioned by folks with critical thinking skills.

Shooting at ballistic gel. As long as you are hunting jellyfish, fragmentation is not a problem. If your prey has bones, all bets are off.

From personal experience, if you can find half of the bullet intact it was a good bullet. I once weighed a Core Lokt .45/70 slug that was subsonic on its best day. It started out at 300 grains and ended at 135.

 

[dirttoys]

I shoot a Barnes triple shock all copper bullet in my 7 mm Weatherby magnum but I load it myself. I didn't choose the bullet for environmental reasons I chose that one after talking with a Weatherby technician when trying to find a good shooting load for that rifle. Of all the bullets and powders I tried he set me on the right track to turn that rifle into something that a person could actually hunt with.
I've found that the 140 TSX bullet I am using is very strong and will go in the front end of an Antelope and come out the other end rather easily even at 300 yards. I haven't missed one yet and the farthest I have had one run is about 30 steps.
I have experimented with the 85 gr TSX in my .243 on targets but have yet to hunt with it. I had loaded them up for a hog hunt and never even used it on one.

This is what I use in 300 bo for terminal ballistics. I also didn't make the decision based on environmental concerns.

If I did have concerns about lead in the environment they would be a good choice, and the only sacrifice is price, they shoot well, and behave well after impact.

As I cautioned earlier, in both bo and 308 they shoot differently to fmj or match, the 300 stays zero'ed for vor-tx and the 308 for matchking or gameking.

Probably easier to shoot copper than bury the bodies

Best,

ed

 

[Jstpssng]

I was a bit hesitant to start this thread. Now I'm glad that I did, as some good ideas and information are being brought up. Thank you for all of the replies, and to everybody for being respectful with your posts.

 

[dirttoys]

I was a bit hesitant to start this thread. Now I'm glad that I did, as some good ideas and information are being brought up. Thank you for all of the replies, and to everybody for being respectful with your posts.

I don't know how much you shoot, but, if you happen to try the norma for you 22 let us know how you like it.

Best,

ed

 

[Mud2Money]

12 yards ? You could have used a rock instead!

I was hoping for a slightly further shot. But they came in closer going broadside. Went to raise my rifle and that doe turned dead straight facing me. I do feel lucky though as what was left of that bullet only traveled about 13” total and didn’t hit guts.

 

[Jstpssng]

I don't know how much you shoot, but, if you happen to try the norma for you 22 let us know how you like it.

Best,

ed

I haven't shot much since the shortage, but until a couple of years ago used to put 20 rounds through my .22 handguns every day, then celebrate Sunday with 2 cylinders through my .357. Every year for Christmas my employer gives us gift certificates to Cabelas... I plan to buy a couple of boxes of lead free this year. Since they sold out to Bass Pro ammo is about the only thing they carry which I find useful anyways...

 

[dirttoys]

I haven't shot much since the shortage, but until a couple of years ago used to put 20 rounds through my .22 handguns every day, then celebrate Sunday with 2 cylinders through my .357. Every year for Christmas my employer gives us gift certificates to Cabelas... I plan to buy a couple of boxes of lead free this year. Since they sold out to Bass Pro ammo is about the only thing they carry which I find useful anyways...

Cool, BassPro was a customer of mine for years. Went through the Cabelas acquisition with them. I do shop at BP but don't know much about Cabelas shopping. Have always thought highly of Morris for keeping many folks in Springfield working.

Oddly, based on frequency, you shoot more than I do

Best,

ed