Has anyone built a pole building using "bookshelf construction method"?

[jimgerken]

I am going to build a new shop building and wish to be able to finish the inside, insulation, sheeting, etc. I am in Minnesota, so it has to be fairly energy efficient. I saw some breif info on the "bookshelf method" in a pamphlet from the Menards store. Looks like a super way to provide the desired structure on the inside of the wall surface to fasten sheeting to, and provide spaces for fiberglass bats laid in there horzontally. Very material efficient method, I beleive. If anyone here has used this method, please share your experiences with it, pictures too if possible. Even if you have seen one built, like by a neighbor or friend, please speak up and share.
In case you do not recognize the method by the name I gave it (bookshelf), it is a technique which puts the wall girts between the posts, laid flat, typically 2x6's, 24 inches on center vertically spaced (instead of the usual girt method which puts them on the outside of the posts). The pamphlet says they can be toe-nailed (?) or little nailers installed above and below them, for fastening to the posts. The pamphlet says wind loading is increased with the bookshelf method. The real attractive part of this method for me is that the 2x6 girt is available to the outside tin for fastening, then provides a 22.5 inch tall space for fiberglass bat (off the shelf size for between trusses on 24 inch center) and then is flush to the inside of the wall for interior wall sheeting fastening.
Thanks.

 

[rus_geek]

I think this is the same method that is sometimes called ladder framing? I've seen one large building framed out this way, although it used 2x10s on four foot centers, I believe. It's a much larger building (100x150x18 I think?) that will never be completely insulated. The purlins do double as nice shelves inside. No direct experience with the construction method in process, though.

-rus-

 

[Duffster]

I am going to build a new shop building and wish to be able to finish the inside, insulation, sheeting, etc. I am in Minnesota, so it has to be fairly energy efficient. I saw some breif info on the "bookshelf method" in a pamphlet from the Menards store. Looks like a super way to provide the desired structure on the inside of the wall surface to fasten sheeting to, and provide spaces for fiberglass bats laid in there horzontally. Very material efficient method, I beleive. If anyone here has used this method, please share your experiences with it, pictures too if possible. Even if you have seen one built, like by a neighbor or friend, please speak up and share.
In case you do not recognize the method by the name I gave it (bookshelf), it is a technique which puts the wall girts between the posts, laid flat, typically 2x6's, 24 inches on center vertically spaced (instead of the usual girt method which puts them on the outside of the posts). The pamphlet says they can be toe-nailed (?) or little nailers installed above and below them, for fastening to the posts. The pamphlet says wind loading is increased with the bookshelf method. The real attractive part of this method for me is that the 2x6 girt is available to the outside tin for fastening, then provides a 22.5 inch tall space for fiberglass bat (off the shelf size for between trusses on 24 inch center) and then is flush to the inside of the wall for interior wall sheeting fastening.
Thanks.

I have built several this way. We use blocks between the girts so the posts looks like a 6 by 10 when done. Very beefy.

It is the only way to do a building that you plan on insulating IMO.

It's just as you said about the insulation and a wall that is 3 inches thinner. THat is a aditional 50 square feet on a 40 x 60.

 

[jimgerken]

Cool, thanks for the first-hand info Duffster! Is there anything on-line or in print that would show any details? I am having trouble drawing a clear and simple plan for the floating concrete slab, and its relation to the pole wall (basically footed, not floating like the floor). Actually that issue is confusing regardless of the type of wall construction, if the wall is insulated (so it has thickness, exists above the slab which can float,...).

 

[Duffster]

Cool, thanks for the first-hand info Duffster! Is there anything on-line or in print that would show any details? I am having trouble drawing a clear and simple plan for the floating concrete slab, and its relation to the pole wall (basically footed, not floating like the floor). Actually that issue is confusing regardless of the type of wall construction, if the wall is insulated (so it has thickness, exists above the slab which can float,...).

If you plan on pouring a floor right away I wouldn't put the pole in the ground. Just on top of the slab.

It has never made sense to me to put post in the ground and pour inside the grade boards.

The post will heave in the frost anyway if there is a board resting on the ground and nailed to the post.

 

[Duffster]

This is basically how we do it.

 

[jimgerken]

Duff, so the entire structure floats then? Can you do this on a large scale though? I always heard it was a poor idea to float a slab bigger than about a 24x24 garage. I will be building about 40x60x12. I am putting plenty of effort into the site under the floor, so possibly there will be very little stress due to frost movement if I am successful. So far: site chosen was not flat, so I excavated it to near flat, taking west side down 16 below original grade, removing most of the material that was dirt or clay. Built up east side about a foot using gravel and dirt mixture (old driveway bed), packing and spreading in sub-one inch layers. The site has since had several hard rains and a day with a sprinkler running on it. It still has slope, out the east end, about 1 inch per ten feet. There will be perimeter drain tile laid down now, then I will be putting back in crushed rock type fill, about 16 inches on the uphill end, and up to 24 inches deep on the lower end (so it actually has a level top surface). At that point I could proceed as is customary, setting poles. Or could deviate to your plan of pouring concrete and set poles on the slab later. I wonder, do you have any more detail photos or drawing of the slab thickness at the edge and pole locations, etc? And, is that a comercial product bracket that mates the laminated pole to the slab? Thanks for anything you offer. I am near Rochester MN if you want to make a visit. hehehe

 

[Duffster]

Duff, so the entire structure floats then? Can you do this on a large scale though? I always heard it was a poor idea to float a slab bigger than about a 24x24 garage. I will be building about 40x60x12. I am putting plenty of effort into the site under the floor, so possibly there will be very little stress due to frost movement if I am successful. So far: site chosen was not flat, so I excavated it to near flat, taking west side down 16 below original grade, removing most of the material that was dirt or clay. Built up east side about a foot using gravel and dirt mixture (old driveway bed), packing and spreading in sub-one inch layers. The site has since had several hard rains and a day with a sprinkler running on it. It still has slope, out the east end, about 1 inch per ten feet. There will be perimeter drain tile laid down now, then I will be putting back in crushed rock type fill, about 16 inches on the uphill end, and up to 24 inches deep on the lower end (so it actually has a level top surface). At that point I could proceed as is customary, setting poles. Or could deviate to your plan of pouring concrete and set poles on the slab later. I wonder, do you have any more detail photos or drawing of the slab thickness at the edge and pole locations, etc? And, is that a comercial product bracket that mates the laminated pole to the slab? Thanks for anything you offer. I am near Rochester MN if you want to make a visit. hehehe

Yes the entire thing floats. I had always heard the same thing about the 24 x 24. We have gone as big as 40 x 64 x 14 and wouldn't think twice about going bigger. Sorry I don't have any drawings but the slab was 6" thick with 1/2" rebar 2" oc. with a extra 5-6' pieces 1' oc perpendicular to the perimeter. The first 4 bars parallel to the perimeter was also 1' oc. The slab edge was 16" thick in ~16" with 2 extra runs of bar in that. Posts are 8' oc.

The steel bracket is just made at a welders fab shop.

I could be there in a few hours.

 

[ultrarunner]

Never seen it this way... although not many pole barns around here.

Any more detail pictures?

 

[Rustyiron]

Jim,
Are you going to heat this bldg?