Has the economy affected you and your tractors?

[_RaT_]

That's a pretty convenient presentation of numbers So, how did the income share of the wealthiest 1% more than double while they were paying all those onerous taxes? I notice the writer very studiously avoided the numbers for percentage of income paid in taxes. A percentage is a percentage, folks need to get over it. But they don't, once that percentage looks like big money, they start talking absolute amounts and shedding crocodille tears.

Does the state of California knock off a few percentage points of sales tax when a below median wage earner buys a new tractor? Heck no. A percentage is a percentage. Don't be fooled. The income distribution in the US has shifted dramatically in the past 20 years. I don't know what it means for the future, but if I were a billionaire I think I could deal with it, traumatic as it may be :laughing:.
Dave.

Who benefits form those sales tax dollars? Schools, medicaid, after school programs, healthcare, free lunch, free, free, free, sorry, as a proportion of who pays what, those with money (of whom I am not) receive the least benefit from the tax dollars they pay. Not a problem, but lets get the facts straight. How many poor people ever gave you a job (federal government not included).

 

[dave1949]

Rates have gone down as the loop holes closed. You could have a cow on 1000 acres and be a rancher. What I would call all hat and no cowboy. Dave makes an argument I simply do not buy. I only did a very quick perusal of Google about who pays what. Go to the IRS.gov website. Bottomline, those with money pay and pay dearly. Increase the cost of a gallon of gas (or diesel) and we all pay the same, poor or rich, make some money and you will redistribute that wealth very, very quickly. Wonder why the musiicans from England no longer live in England....? Sorry Dave, I simply do not buy your reasoning.

Rat - Not sure which reasoning you are referring to. People who make a lot of money tend to spend a lot of money. Those that do not are fairly rare. The majority of them distribute more of their wealth voluntarily than they pay in taxes.

My response after reading the article is it's odd to point out how much wealthier the super wealthy have become and then lament how much of the total taxes they pay. The distribution of wealth trend stats speak for themselves and didn't happen by magic.

As to English musicians, sure they are escaping a high tax country. I understand that. That's human nature. It's a lot easier to do when one has transportable wealth also. I don't know why it is germane to this topic, unless you are considering looking more seriously at some of those other countries we could live in
Dave.

 

[dave1949]

Who benefits form those sales tax dollars? Schools, medicaid, after school programs, healthcare, free lunch, free, free, free, sorry, as a proportion of who pays what, those with money (of whom I am not) receive the least benefit from the tax dollars they pay. Not a problem, but lets get the facts straight. How many poor people ever gave you a job (federal government not included).

What facts are wrong in my post? You are making different factual statements not about who pays, but what who receives. I can't have sideways conversations.

How many poor people enable people to become rich? A McDonald's franchise for example? It's not a one way street, and theoretically at least, everyone can travel both directions. Those who find themselves in a good position shouldn't forget how they got there.

Beyond the typical tax supported programs you listed, don't forget the tax supported services wealthy people need. A functioning justice system. A financial system which offers some stability. A military capability to protect their interests, and people willing to die in that cause. They ain't exactly low maintenance folks.
Dave.

 

[_RaT_]

Rat - Not sure which reasoning you are referring to. People who make a lot of money tend to spend a lot of money. Those that do not are fairly rare. The majority of them distribute more of their wealth voluntarily than they pay in taxes.

My response after reading the article is it's odd to point out how much wealthier the super wealthy have become and then lament how much of the total taxes they pay. The distribution of wealth trend stats speak for themselves and didn't happen by magic.

As to English musicians, sure they are escaping a high tax country. I understand that. That's human nature. It's a lot easier to do when one has transportable wealth also. I don't know why it is germane to this topic, unless you are considering looking more seriously at some of those other countries we could live in
Dave.

I am not so sure that any of us are really lamenting that they pay more in taxes, rather that they are indeed simply paying much more than many generally perceive or some might have you otherwise believe. I for one know a few "super rich" and they don't so much as complain about their tax burden as much as the benefit they see it giving to society. I for one do not mind that the wealthier become wealthier. I prefer it to be folks that live in my country but whatever. Before one can spend ones wealth, that wealth is taxed. Those that distribute wealth prior to taxes I have no doubt do a better job of distributing that wealth than any government on earth. I have yet to get a job from a homeless fellow or even a poor fellow. I have yet to give a dollar to someone who does not need it and have given plenty those that do. What I like best is my choice to do so. Take that away and I'm going to sour a bit.

 

[_RaT_]

What facts are wrong in my post? You are making different factual statements not about who pays, but what who receives. I can't have sideways conversations.

How many poor people enable people to become rich? A McDonald's franchise for example? It's not a one way street, and theoretically at least, everyone can travel both directions. Those who find themselves in a good position shouldn't forget how they got there.

Beyond the typical tax supported programs you listed, don't forget the tax supported services wealthy people need. A functioning justice system. A financial system which offers some stability. A military capability to protect their interests, and people willing to die in that cause. They ain't exactly low maintenance folks.
Dave.

But Dave, they do pay for those things, they really, really pay. In fact, those things exist more because of how much they pay rather than how little those who don't pay use them. The military may be one of the few exceptions. I cannot equate anyone's life with an ability to pay or how much they pay. As far as how many poor help rich become rich, I'm sure its plenty, but I do not lament that. Perhaps this is where our difference resides. I do not mind that someone sees an opportunity to help themselves while helping others. Capitalism or Socialism. One gives you mediocrity.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Before I toddle off to bed(We have visitor's from across the pond) One comment: I would rather pay $10000 for a new library, than a dime on welfare.
(you got lucky dave, Had a whole long rant, before my guests arrived, had to dump it,

 

[_RaT_]

Yes, I am also off to the horizontal mind altering device (hmad) which brings up another topic, why do we sleep? What is happening to our brain? Have you ever had a dream so real that later on you think about it and are not sure if you have actually done it or just dreamed it?

 

[keegs]

Love ya Dave, but have to disagree. If Buffet wanted to pony up, he could bypass all of the legal tax loopholes that he uses and just pay on what he made. He doesn't.

Besides, most of these really rich guys are paying 15% on dividends and capital gains. Their salaries are small in comparison to their invesment income, by design(Read the proxies)...All legal. Straight salary can be as high as 39% (I believe).

I'm not rich, but I'm starting to feel the pinch as I creep towards a certain income level....Punishment for success isn't what we're about.

Also, some clown on TV said that all bonuses should be taxed at 50%...Trust me, they have been doing that for decades.

timswi

I've gotten annual bonuses for at least the past ten years and it's always taxed at the same rate as other income.

The point Buffet made was the one you raised. He's paying 15% on his income while wage earners typically pay double that rate.

You'd have to be working in he financial industry to characterize what went down over the past half decade as success. Some of these guys should be in jail IMO.

As far as the progressive tax is concerned, it's in the constitution.

 

[MossRoad]

There are few people with private pensions anymore. Virtually all companies have gone to 401K type plans. BTW, the 401K was never intended to replace pensions. It was a way for high income people to avoid taxes. Generally the only jobs with pensions now are government jobs, - cops, firemen, teachers. The median family income in this country is only about 40K. How someone can put food on the table, pay a mortgage, and pay all the other bills life throws at us, on 40K is beyond me. Expecting those folks to contribute to a 401K is a fantasy.

I've never made over 40K in my life and have managed to pay off two houses, 20 acres, send my kids to private schools and have decent running cars. My wife works, too, however, if she did not work we would have saved a fortune on child care, extra car and associated car costs, etc... so much so that we still could have saved for retirement. Had we skipped private schools, we would have had an additional 75K in the bank. We have contributed to our 401k's out of pocket almost the exact same amount that we spent on child care over the last 17 years. So, it is realistic to make 40K a year, buy a home, have a decent running car, send your kids to good schools AND save for retirement.... IF you do not buy new homes, new cars, high end consumer electronics, bigger tractors than you really need (gotta keep it tractor related :laughing: ), lots of toys, etc.... I do realize that I am fortunate to have a job with O.K. health insurance. Without that benefit, the story might be completely different. Anyhow, I think many people tend to want too much too fast and live up to or even beyond their means way to early in their lives. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[MossRoad]

Love ya Dave, but have to disagree. If Buffet wanted to pony up, he could bypass all of the legal tax loopholes that he uses and just pay on what he made. He doesn't.

Besides, most of these really rich guys are paying 15% on dividends and capital gains. Their salaries are small in comparison to their invesment income, by design(Read the proxies)...All legal. Straight salary can be as high as 39% (I believe).

I'm not rich, but I'm starting to feel the pinch as I creep towards a certain income level....Punishment for success isn't what we're about.

Also, some clown on TV said that all bonuses should be taxed at 50%...Trust me, they have been doing that for decades.

Don't pick on my hero Warren! :laughing: I saw an interview with him last year. He said it sickens him that he pays a lower tax percentage than his cleaning lady. If one of the richest guys in the world says he should be paying more taxes, something is wrong with the tax system.