haybines

[cowboy bowhnter]

What are good haybines. Im looking for a 9 ft haybine in MN. And want all the info i can get on them before i buy one. I use a sickle now and it is way way way to slow.

 

[Duffster]

Can't go wrong with a NH 489.

 

[flusher]

What are good haybines. Im looking for a 9 ft haybine in MN. And want all the info i can get on them before i buy one. I use a sickle now and it is way way way to slow.

Your sickle is too slow--why? Short cutting bar? Clogging? Old sicklebar mower with maintenance/adjustment problems?

That 9ft haybine will have a sicklebar.

Are you perhaps thinking about a discbine?

 

[cowboy bowhnter]

Your sickle is too slow--why? Short cutting bar? Clogging? Old sicklebar mower with maintenance/adjustment problems?

That 9ft haybine will have a sicklebar.

Are you perhaps thinking about a discbine?

I have a 6 ft sicklebar. When i go fast it cloggs and then its one that will fold back and stop cutting. I do have new teeth in it. But it being small and having to go slow takes forever. But my last cutting was thicker. 350 bales off 10 acres. It even cloggs with stemy grass. t

 

[Verticaltrx]

I have a 6 ft sicklebar. When i go fast it cloggs and then its one that will fold back and stop cutting. I do have new teeth in it. But it being small and having to go slow takes forever. But my last cutting was thicker. 350 bales off 10 acres. It even cloggs with stemy grass. t

Sounds like your sickle bar is out of adjustment. There is a lot more to a good operating sickle bar than just sharp sickle sections. I can elaborate if needed...

Also, as far as speed goes you really can mow about as fast with a sickle bar as you can a disc mower, I mow at 6mph with my NH 451 sickle bar. They actually work better if you go fairly fast, tend to plug up less that way.

When it comes to haybines, I only have experience with a JD 1219 MoCo that we have. It's a 9' cut, hydraulic fold, and has cut literally thousands of acres of hay over the years. Still works great, all we've ever had to do is change the knife a few times, guards, and some other wear parts. As for speed, you actually have to pull a haybine a bit slower than a standard sickle bar. However, most haybines are wider than a sickle bar so you do gain a little field capacity there. Generally speaking if you stick to Deere or New Holland hay equipment you can't go wrong.

BTW, thick hay is when you get 1000 bales off 10 ac. :thumbsup:

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Can't go wrong with a NH 489.

What he said! ^^^^^^

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Sounds like your sickle bar is out of adjustment. There is a lot more to a good operating sickle bar than just sharp sickle sections. I can elaborate if needed...

Also, as far as speed goes you really can mow about as fast with a sickle bar as you can a disc mower, I mow at 6mph with my NH 451 sickle bar. They actually work better if you go fairly fast, tend to plug up less that way.

When it comes to haybines, I only have experience with a JD 1219 MoCo that we have. It's a 9' cut, hydraulic fold, and has cut literally thousands of acres of hay over the years. Still works great, all we've ever had to do is change the knife a few times, guards, and some other wear parts. As for speed, you actually have to pull a haybine a bit slower than a standard sickle bar. However, most haybines are wider than a sickle bar so you do gain a little field capacity there. Generally speaking if you stick to Deere or New Holland hay equipment you can't go wrong.

BTW, thick hay is when you get 1000 bales off 10 ac. :thumbsup:

Last week, I watched my son mow heavy alfalfa with his new New Holland disc mower. HE was mowing at 12mph! I was impressed to say the least, although I though at the time it's a good thing he has a cab tractor....Speeds like that can bounce a man right off a tractor!!!!

For OP...

For ages, I mowed only with a New Holland 451 9' sickle bar. There always seems to be a "sweet spot" as far as speed. Too slow is worse than too fast. As a general rule, I started off @ approx. 6mph then adjusted up or down as needed. You have to get a good "flow" of cut crop going over the cutter bar to prevent plugging. You want the cut crop to hit the ground BEHIND the cutter bar and not on top of it. That takes a reasonable ground speed....ie, don't go too slow.

New Holland did an excellent job with regards to the owners manuals on 451 cutters. They detail adjustments to get a good clean cut. What is covered in the NH manuals applies to every brand as far as what adjustments do for how the mower operates. There is a LOT to adjusting a sickle bar....far more than meets the eye. Bar attitude (top link lenght) is important in heavy crop conditions and is commonly ignored. Sections being sharp, ledger plates being in good shape, hold down clips, guard condition, and what is known as section INDEX must ALL be in good repair to mow fast without issues.

 

[dan_d]

Sounds like your sickle bar is out of adjustment. There is a lot more to a good operating sickle bar than just sharp sickle sections. I can elaborate if needed...

I'd love for you to elaborate! My New Idea 290 "mow-ditioner" (haha what an original name :confused2: ) which i picked up for dirt cheap a couple years ago suddenly started acting up, with the last couple of teeth constantly clogging up... At first i thought it was the teeth since i found the last one (the doubled-up one, which of course was the only one i didn't have a spare for on hand!) got chipped, but after replacing it and a couple more teeth am still having the exact same problem! I bought a couple new guards to put in but when i pulled the old ones out they didn't seem to be much worse than new, so i'm hoping to figure out what the correct adjustment is instead of trial-and-error in the field ... I suspect i must have hit something hard and/or dug the far end of the mower into the ground somehow but since i don't know what it looked like before, i don't know how to get it back!

I'm assuming there must be some adjustments to be made as far as tooth-to-guard clearance, and maybe those hold-down clips need to "hold down" a little harder but it's just a shot in the dark at this point!

Thanks in advance!
Dan

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'd love for you to elaborate! My New Idea 290 "mow-ditioner" (haha what an original name :confused2: ) which i picked up for dirt cheap a couple years ago suddenly started acting up, with the last couple of teeth constantly clogging up... At first i thought it was the teeth since i found the last one (the doubled-up one, which of course was the only one i didn't have a spare for on hand!) got chipped, but after replacing it and a couple more teeth am still having the exact same problem! I bought a couple new guards to put in but when i pulled the old ones out they didn't seem to be much worse than new, so i'm hoping to figure out what the correct adjustment is instead of trial-and-error in the field ... I suspect i must have hit something hard and/or dug the far end of the mower into the ground somehow but since i don't know what it looked like before, i don't know how to get it back!

I'm assuming there must be some adjustments to be made as far as tooth-to-guard clearance, and maybe those hold-down clips need to "hold down" a little harder but it's just a shot in the dark at this point!

Thanks in advance!
Dan

Basically what you need for a sickle bar to operate well, regardless if it's in a mo-co or standard mower is as follows:

-sharp sickle section
-straight knife bar (the bar that the sections are riveted to)
-straight cutter bar (part that the guards bolt to)
-straight guards
-good, square shouldered ledger plates (or that portion of the guards if they don't have replaceable ledge plates)
-proper shims to keep the sickle adjusted fore/aft
-proper hold down tension, keep the sickle right down on the ledger plates, but not 'tight'
-good belt/tension (assuming it's belt drive)
-make sure the sickle has the right register
-proper reel and crimper operation (mo-co)


There are a few other adjustments, but those mostly pretain to standard sickle bars (swath boards, sickle angle, etc.) If all is good that I mentioned there is no reason it shouldn't cut well.

 

[slowzuki]

Unless you got our old one. Wore out rollers with rubber coming off made you curse every second. I'm glad I got a discbine with a flail!

Can't go wrong with a NH 489.

 

[Duffster]

Unless you got our old one. Wore out rollers with rubber coming off made you curse every second. I'm glad I got a discbine with a flail!

That won't be any better when it is not maintained and wore out.

 

[dan_d]

Basically what you need for a sickle bar to operate well, regardless if it's in a mo-co or standard mower is as follows:
....
-make sure the sickle has the right register

"register"?

 

[ham]

Well I am retiring from the New Holland haybine world. Seems like I just can't get through a full season without a major breakdown. The engineers were lacking I think in allowing you to easily repair them and I looked at a brand new 488 the other day and other than the main PTO drive line the difficult spots to fix...are still difficult.

If you have nice soft grass. Smooth ground. No badgers or groundsquirrels and you are a bit of a mechanic the go with the hay bine, otherwise the discbines are the wave of the future...now...if I can just find a real fine small discbine worth the money.

Note to all cynical answers. I went slow. I greased. I set it correctly. I had the dealership do repairs as well as myself. They are like helicopters...made to shake themselves apart from the day they leave the factory.

 

[slowzuki]

Maybe but I don't have those darned 3000$ of rubber rolls that come off the steel every 10 years. As soon as a small patch goes they are garbage in the long grass hay we have here. I've spent more time under a 489 cutting hay out of the rollers than I've spent mowing with one I think. All the time prepping spare sickle bars to slide in when the teeth get damaged etc.

No sir, I spent lots of time maintaining the 489, she just isn't meant for our rough fields. The disc mower conditioner was a high hour, high acreage unit but she works like a top.

That won't be any better when it is not maintained and wore out.

 

[Verticaltrx]

"register"?

Register is the relation of the end of the sickle stroke to where the guards are. In general the sickle should move from center of one guard to the center of the next. If it doesn't then the register is off, it is adjustable on some mowers. On others if it is off it means something is bent or worn.

 

[dan_d]

Makes sense... thanks!

As for the rest of the adjustments, once it's all said and done how much clearance should i expect to see between the knife and the bottom of the guard slot? I assume not very much, but i was looking at a my bar yesterday and noticed that in some cases the knives are sitting pretty much in the middle of the guard slot and i'm guessing that's not a good thing...??


Dan

 

[204saskman]

We have been using a discbine this year and have been using haybines for the past to many years. There is nothing like this machine and i would never go back to a haybine. We have cut 750 acres of hay this year and the only thing we have replaced is the knives and it has been awsome. We cut anywere from 4-12 mph depending on the field(rocky and full of mole hills). Try one once and youll never look at a haybine again. Ours is a new holland 1431 discbine.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Makes sense... thanks!

As for the rest of the adjustments, once it's all said and done how much clearance should i expect to see between the knife and the bottom of the guard slot? I assume not very much, but i was looking at a my bar yesterday and noticed that in some cases the knives are sitting pretty much in the middle of the guard slot and i'm guessing that's not a good thing...??


Dan

The knife should physically be touching the bottom of the guard/ledger plate. If it's in the middle of the slot it is too high and won't cut well at all (also a major cause of plugging.)

 

[5030]

My only comments are as follows....

Despite the comments that will come, I prefer my sickle bar MoCo over the discbine, especially in twisted first cut hay that occurs here almost every year.

I also prefer SCH Double Cut bars and guards, no hold downs, just a guard, knife section back bar and ledger and with the SCH, the ledger is a ball bearing affair. No sliding wear.

Most all combines run SCH as standard equipment. Combining is always dry stalk cutting, maximum wear and maximum feed, whereas hay cutting is higher moisture. If the SCH is up to dry stalk cutting under maximum feed conditions, it's good enough to handle any hay situation.

One thing that destroys guards in rough fields is the angle of attack that the guard is in. I tend to run my guards in a flat or slightly downward position. I don't believe I've bent a guard in the last 3 years and I do lots of contract fields..... of course I watch where I'm mowing too plus I'll walk a field I'm not familiar with prior to cutting.

if you just put hay through rubber (meshed) rollers and not limbs, barbed wire, old tractor parts, rake teeth or other trash, the rollers last a long time. I have the original rollers on my 920 JD and it's 15 years old and they are still almost like new, but then, I'm careful. Replacement rollers are costly and adversely affect my bottom line, so are cutter components, come to think about it, all parts are costly. I prefer to farm smart and make money.

I like the MoCo because it's not power intensive as well. With the price of fuel, I try to keep my per acre cost low, it bolsters my bottom line. I don't want to be blow'in balck smoke because the engine is working it's gonads off, I prefer crusing along and using less fuel, enjoying the climate control and listening to the CD.

Finally, the MoCo is easier to work on. especially changing cutters in the field. I keep a complete knife bar ready to go so if a problem arises, it's just a matter of sliding one out and sliding in another, a couple bolts and it's off to the races, about 15 minutes. The disc mower is a whole different story.

I still have all my fingers...I nevr get between the knife section and guard, never.

SCH solid ledgers are 4 sided so you have 4 different square ledger surfaces to choose from.

 

[Verticaltrx]

if you just put hay through rubber (meshed) rollers and not limbs, barbed wire, old tractor parts, rake teeth or other trash, the rollers last a long time. I have the original rollers on my 920 JD and it's 15 years old and they are still almost like new, but then, I'm careful. Replacement rollers are costly and adversely affect my bottom line, so are cutter components, come to think about it, all parts are costly. I prefer to farm smart and make money.

I agree. Our JD 1219 MoCo is over 25yrs old and the rollers are in perfect shape, it's had thousands of acres of hay through it over the years. We also make sure to send only hay through it (mostly) :thumbsup:

The biggest gripe I have with disc mowers is the lack of ability to pick up downed or lodged hay. I haven't seen anything that beats the reel on a moco for getting every last bit of hay up and cut. With our disc mower (616 NH) you have to really angle the cutter bar down in those conditions and even still you end up with a fair bit of uncut hay laying on the ground. The disc mower is nice for new or unknown fields where there could be rocks, stumps, etc however.