I hope that we can agree to disagree and I certainly am not saying anything bad about the troops but they were literally caught between a rock and a hard place. I blame that on A: Truman throttling MacArther and B: then as now, our men being under UN command is a recipe for disaster.
Plenty of mistakes have been made in most wars but the incompetance that started in Korea led to Vietnam. That is my take.
Marines are Marines. Not troops.
They were not caught between a rock and hard place.
They were surrounded by hyped up on drugs Chinese Communist forces that outnumbered them by over 10 to 1. :confused2: Why were the surrounded and outnumbered? I will get to that shortly. The Marines really had to attack the way they came to get out. There was one spot that the Air Force had to drop bridge sections to span a gorge. No bridge. No way out. The Marines were not happy at the papers saying they retreated.
There was an Army RCT that went up one side of Chosin but they were all but wiped out by the Chinese. Some of them were able to run across the frozen Chosin to get to the Marines. Many got killed on the ice and the bodies could not be recovered because the remaining heat in their bodies melted the ice which then froze to the ice. Many bodies were "buried" in holes blown out of the frozen ground, the frozen dirt pushed back over them, and compacted with tanks. There is movie footage of this but I don't know if it was ever released.
Truman's big mistake was not firing MacArthur earlier than he did. MacArthur was an ego manic and disobedient from the time he left West Point. He often did things that were good for him but not the Army or the country. Harsh statement I know but go read up on him. MacArthur had the largest concentration of US air power outside the continental US on December 7, 1941. He had 8-12 hours from the time Pearl harbor was attacked to prepare his forces in the PI before the Japanese attacked. What did he do? He prevented the Air Force from taking off.
He did not want to provoke the Japanese. Those where HIS words. When the Japanese landed and conquered the PI they had
less forces than MacArthur. MacArthur had years to prepare for the Japanese invasion but he did not implement to the plan he created.
Most people have heard of Guadacanal. How many have heard of the battle of Buna? Allied forces fought the battle at very high cost. Higher than at Guadacanal. But you won't hear of Buna since it did not show MacArthur in a favorable light. In fact it showed some of the worst of him.
When MacArthur got on one of the last boats leaving the PI he had a chest of money given to him by the PI President. The money was around a $500,000. Ike was given a similar offer but declined. When MacArthur said he would return he did but he also invaded more islands in the PI than was militarily required. Did the money have anything to do with these actions?
Back to Chosin. Many of the senior NCO and officers in the 1st Marine Division has spent years in China in the 20's and 30's. They knew the people and the languages. The Marines were capturing Chinese soldiers in Korea. The told the Corp and Army commanders that Chinese units were in Korea. The Army said the Marines were wrong and to push to the Yalu river.
Mao was making statements that it was OK to for the ROK to move to the Yalu but that if UN forces moved to the river the Chinese would not be happy campers. MacArthur pushed anyway. The ChiComs pushed the PLA into Korea.
When the Chinese attacked they overran at least one US Army division in this phase of the war. Before the war stalemated, the US Army had divisions overrun several times by the Chinese. Being overrun is not a good thing.
The Marines following orders that they knew were nuts had pushed up to Chosin but left regiments along the main supply route. Which was good and bad. This left the division strung out dependent on ONE small mountain road to get supplies in or to get the division out. But the regiments were at least large enough to have a chance against the Chinese Armies that were about to swarm out of the mountains. The Chinese attacked the exposed flanks of the Marines and cut off the various units from each other. They were surrounded. They had to fight there way back from Chosin to relink.
Interesting tid bit. Alexander Haig was a young officer and aide to General Almond who was the Corp commander to which the Marines were assigned. While the Marines and soldiers were struggling to stay alive from the cold and Chinese, Almond was having fresh salad flown in daily for his staff. For the men at Chosin to eat they had to strap C rations to their armpits or to engine blocks to thaw the food. It was so cold there were Marines who jumped on grenades to save their fellow Marines but lived because the blood froze before they could bleed to death. And the Chicom grenades were not that good.
When Almond had to abandon his HQ one of the last jobs Haig had to do was to blow up Almond's bathtub. :laughing: Seems like Al Haig spent the rest of his life kissing fanny and blowing up one bathtub after another.
MacArthur refused to meet the Commander in Chief in the US but forced Truman to meet him at Wake Island. Mac was too busy with the war to fly back the US. I guess Truman having to worry about the rest of the world along with the war had more time on his hands. The president is the boss. Truman should have fired him for the insubordination at that point and almost did. But Truman waited until MacArthur stepped further across the line and started playing politics AGAINST the president.
MacArthur's ego is why we have two Koreas today. He sold himself as the Asian expert. He failed to listen to what the Chinese were saying. He failed to understand his enemy, both the N. Koreans and the Chinese. The landing at Inchon was almost a disaster. The US got lucky at Inchon. Inchon was executed after the Navy and the Marines argued strongly not to land at the port. If not for a logistical screw up on the North Koreans part, Korea would likely be just one state today. And that would be all communist. MacArthur's actions AFTER Inchon was even worse and driven by more ego. This led directly to Chosin. Chosin and the 8th Army advance led to the Chinese getting into the war which leads us to today's two Koreas.
The Korean war stalemated with both sides taking and loosing Seoul numerous times. Only when Ridgeway was in charge after MacArthur's firing did the moral and effectiveness of the Army begin to improve.
MacArthur was a very smart man who had an ego that is rarely matched in history. From the time he left West Point he was disobedient to superiors. He was ALWAYS looking to get a Medal of Honer. His father earned one so he had to have one. He truly was a Momma's boy. He surrounded himself with Yes Men who made a good PR machine. MacArthur may have even been a genius but his super ego and lust of recognition overshadowed his intellect. Mac did do some good things in Japan and before the Korea war. But as a general he is a good example of great marketing.
Ike had some interesting statements about MacArthur. Here is one, "I can't understand how such a **** fool could have gotten to be a general."
Later,
Dan
