health insurance bill

[LostInTheWoods]

Eventually, by some means, our health care system will need to grow into the capacity to serve all the population. For me, that is a reasonable goal. It's hard to claim we have a great health care system if it cannot at least minimally service the whole population.

I would say that for the most part, we have already provide "minimum service" to everybody. Question is, is that minimum service enough? No one is denied emergency care. Everyone can obtain health insurance through employee sponsored plans (assuming they choose to work) at McDonalds, etc. There are "free clinics" in many, many places.

I think the biggest offence is to the "working poor". Those who are able to contribute, and choose to do so. As far as healthcare, they'd probably be better off not working at all and collecting from the government. And that is sad. I hope that the working poor and those who are truly mentally or physically unable to work benefit from these changes.

I see nothing wrong with more mini-clinics and more PA's and nurses providing primary care. CatDriver's example is a good one. He had a relatively simple issue and probably doesn't need to visit an expensive hospital setting with mega bucks worth of diagnostic equipment, operating and care facilities.

Agreed. PA's have a long history of providing excellent healthcare. Disclaimer: I am one . PA's are not doctors. They are not meant to replace doctors. PA's are more than capable of delivering the majority of medical care. One of the keys to success as a PA is to know your limits. Keep those in mind, and you will have many successful years of helping your patients.

One key reason many doctor offices became so large was the thought that they'd be a benefit from economy of scale. If three, or four, or five providers go into business together, surely overhead could be reduced. Problem is, those savings never materialized.

Each provider still needed X amount of office space, X amount of exam room space, X amount of continuing education funding, each provider needed a nurse, etc. There were few gains to be made. If you had five providers, you simply needed five times as much space, etc.

Another indirect expence added on over the years due to litigation concerns is charting/transcription costs. 40 years ago, how many doctor offices had medical records clerks and transcriptionists? I have seen charts from years ago that would never fly in today's litigious society. Something along the lines of "Pharyngitis. Amoxicillin" That's it. Two words, along with a recording of the vital signs. As a medical provider, I know exactly what he was thinking, exactly what his standard exam was, exactly what he went over mentally in formulating his diagnosis and treatment plan. But if he were sued based on these notes, he would loose. "If you didn't document it, you didn't do it". So now, you have to document four paragraphs worth of information even for the most basic encounters. There's no time to do that of 25 or 30 people a day, so now you need the transcriptionist.

 

[Chuck52]

I would say that for the most part, we have already provide "minimum service" to everybody. Question is, is that minimum service enough? No one is denied emergency care. Everyone can obtain health insurance through employee sponsored plans (assuming they choose to work) at McDonalds, etc. There are "free clinics" in many, many places.

Perhaps you did not mean that as I read it. Are you saying that one should only take a job if it includes health insurance? There are many, many jobs out there without included health insurance. My SIL used to work for a HVAC company without a health insurance plan. The owner claimed he couldn't afford it. SIL started his own company, but since my daughter is a nurse he was covered by her insurance. As long as she is working she will have employer provided insurance, though the employee contribution is always subject to change. Lots of small businesses don't offer employee health insurance, and if they did I expect the employee contribution might have to be pretty high. I think I said before that I don't have a good estimate of the cost of non-employment based coverage since I've always had that, but I am under the impression it is quite expensive if it provides good coverage. Anyone got real numbers? If one is making in the $30K range without employer provided health insurance, can you afford to buy your own? I know people who "choose to work" darn hard who do not have coverage.

Chuck

 

[LostInTheWoods]

Perhaps you did not mean that as I read it. Are you saying that one should only take a job if it includes health insurance? There are many, many jobs out there without included health insurance. My SIL used to work for a HVAC company without a health insurance plan. The owner claimed he couldn't afford it. SIL started his own company, but since my daughter is a nurse he was covered by her insurance. As long as she is working she will have employer provided insurance, though the employee contribution is always subject to change. Lots of small businesses don't offer employee health insurance, and if they did I expect the employee contribution might have to be pretty high. I think I said before that I don't have a good estimate of the cost of non-employment based coverage since I've always had that, but I am under the impression it is quite expensive if it provides good coverage. Anyone got real numbers? If one is making in the $30K range without employer provided health insurance, can you afford to buy your own? I know people who "choose to work" darn hard who do not have coverage.

Chuck

Chuck,

I don't believe a person should avoid a job just because it does not provide health insurance. I know many couples with the exact same set-up....one has insurance, while the other does not. Works out great for them. That does bring up an interesting question. Let's say they are a relatively young, healthy couple. Would they now be forced to both purchase insurance, possibly increasing their insurance costs?

There are many factors that any job candidate must weigh when thinking about a job. Health insurance is just one of those factors. In fact, I have a bit of a problem getting my mind around the fact that under the new plan, people will be forced to obtain health insurance.

With few exceptions, I believe the individual should be allowed to choose what he/she thinks is best for him/her. So long as their choice does not infringe upon the rights of another, they should be allowed to make their own decisions.

When I say that everyone can obtain insurance through McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc, I'm merely pointing pointing out that it is available. Many have argued that some people just can't get insurance. I argue that it is available to many who are willing to put in an honest day's work. Is McDonalds for everybody? Of course not. It'd be painfully hard to support a family working at McDonalds and paying for insurance. But it's a start. Its something they've earned. Which is why I hope the working poor gain under this bill.

You ask if anyone under #30K/year can afford health insurance. I'd say most likely. What they would have to do is to see health insurance as valuable to them as their house, their car, their iphones, their high-speed internet, their golf membership, and their bass boat. I'm not saying that people should be expected to be happy to live in poverty, just so they can afford insurance. What I am saying is that it is all too easy to live beyond our means.

 

[sweettractors]

I cant figure out how 50% of the people in this country can keep paying the taxes for all these government entitlement programs and the other 50% don't pay any taxes (and most actually get refunds)? Seems like at some point in time there would be social unrest by the payers of taxes when they get tired of supporting the 1/2 of non paying. Ken Sweet

 

[brin]

Ken - I agree with you 100% ! Time cures all ills...the Goose will get constipated and the golden eggs will be no more...should be interesting to watch.

 

[turbo36]

You are not very informed about how health care or insurance works. None of this is true.

You are the one that is wrong, this is exactly how it works with my insurance plan. Any treatment, other then emergency, must get "qualified" before the insurance carrier will agree to cover it. Recently I needed some surgery so I submitted my paperwork and waited for approval, after a few weeks of waiting I had to call and remind them that I owned the company and thus had the final say in who we choose come the next renewal period, amazingly I got approved the very next day. I could only imagine the run around they must give my "lowly factory guys".

Given the condition our economy has been put in and the new taxes to pay for the health care bill, no one in their right mind would start a new business now. Also, what's your source for yet another 'statistic' about 'a number of people' who won't change jobs or 'start their own enterprise that could employ hundreds'.

Do you own your own Company? If not then your opinion on this statement is irrelevant.

When I quit my real job 25 years ago to started my first company the availability of health care was one of the huge potential deal breakers in my decision path. I would not risk the financial repercussions my family would suffer in the event of a major medical emergency so I waited until I had that covered before making the jump.

The first thing I thought about when this thing passed was that maybe one of the few bright spots would be that it would probably encourage more entrepreneurship.

 

[brin]

turbo ..."
" The first thing I thought about when this thing passed was that maybe one of the few bright spots would be that it would probably encourage more entrepreneurship. " >>>> Unfornunately I think this new health care bill will discourage entrepreneuship and cost jobs, there is no provision to contain health care costs...the way I see it costs are headed higher...much higher with reduced care and much, much longer waits and rationing.

 

[Bob_In_MN]

Almost every one of them will dump their plans and pay the fine, it's a simple business decision. This will achieve the primary purpose of the bill which is to make the federal government the single payer and thereby make a huge number of people new dependents of the federal government.

I agree completely--and while this is happening be prepared to pay more for your employer sponsored plan as insurance companies pass the new taxes they pay on to clients in the form of increased premium hikes (which will allow the government to point their finger at the insurance companies as a means to bolster their arguement for government run healthcare).

 

[sweettractors]

In 2 more years I can qualify for medicare, however, I am willing to bet that it will be screwed up by then or there will not be any Doctors or Providers that will accept it. IN addition, 500 Bil. to be taken out of Medicare makes my future health care decisions up in the air. Ken Sweet

 

[archerm3]

The title of this thread should read..

"I got mine, and I couldn't care less about any other American who has to die or suffer pain because they weren't as successful or lucky as me. Everyone could be a millionaire if they just wanted it bad enough"

Imagine...a bunch of bus drivers being millionaires and Snapon Tool salesman..the only reason they arent millionaires is that they just don't want it bad enough...therefore...why should we care if a catastrophic illness destroys their childrens future..

I got mine.

People have no clue as to what the bill actually entails and are making comments based on their perceptions of what pundits and chain emails are telling them to think, not reality. There is no rationing...there is no change to your insurance plan unless your employer decides to change it...but wait, that happens already...

You people afraid of rationing and an influx of people into the health care system..are these people that are laying dead and dying in the gutter, and you want them to stay out of your health care system so your "WAIT" time isnt impacted? You don't think that maybe there could be an expansion of jobs (if you believe your own rhetoric about an increase in patients). Fact is either these people don't need health care services or they do, and if they do...BY ALL THAT IS HOLY they should **** WELL GET IT. I dont care what their background is...Im not here to judge other human beings...thats GOD"S JOB...but many of you seem to be vying for that job. Many of you people sound like the people in the ER I work at that complain about their wait time on a upset stomach and someone in the next room is bleeding out, yet the upset stomach is the loudmouth screaming and carrying on about malpractice suits. Baby want their binky.

Cant have it both ways...hmmm...my opponent likes my ideas so he is wrong...or he likes his own ideas...still wrong...never mind that if he likes my ideas and is wrong, that makes ME wrong too...You cant talk about expanding an industry..creating extra demand for that same industry, and then complain about a declining job market in the same sentence and be considered credible in any way.


I won't participate in this thread any further because I'm surprised it hasn't gotten shot down already for political reasons...this is precisely a political thread...which kind of "bill" does everyone think we are talking about.

IBTL