Heat pumps

   / Heat pumps #1  

deere755

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
944
Location
central Illinois near Lake Shelbyville
Tractor
Case 2090 Massey Ferguson 4233 John Deere 4700
I hope this is the right thread for this question. We are considering a heat pump for next winter. We can get a rate of 4 cents per kw from our power company for switching and this would also apply for our cooling plus a $250 rebate from the power company for switching over. We live in central (Sullivan) Illinois. I think this would work well for our region. Also the sales rep. we talked to said our current central air unit has a seer rating of 9 and the unit he wants to sell us is a 15. The power company claims that they can save us big money if propane is .90 or above. We contracted our propane pre-pay for 1.29 last heating season. We used about 750 gallon last year. Our propane man tells me he thinks propane will be 1.50 by fall. The sales rep. says the heat pump will work until about 18 degrees. We have a lot of days in this area above 18. Does anyone have any experiences with a heat pump and would you say it would pay for itself? I am not a heating and cooling person so alot of what was told to me is all Greek to me. Any advice?
 
   / Heat pumps #2  
If you heated with propane last season I'm sure you were comfortable.

Ask a few folks that have used heat pumps and they will tell you that heat pumps utilize a low air temperature rise within the duct work.

That means they will heat the house but the air coming from the supply registers will feel lukewarm at best. No comparison to your propane furnace where the registers feel warm and toasty on your bare feet.

If you can get by the stigma of the electric heat pump then it may be a good alternative for your needs.

My personal opinion is that they aren't worth squat in our colder climates. Glad I have a high efficiency natural gas furnace.
 
   / Heat pumps #3  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( IWe live in central (Sullivan) Illinois. I think this would work well for our region. Also the sales rep. we talked to said our current central air unit has a seer rating of 9 and the unit he wants to sell us is a 15. The sales rep. says the heat pump will work until about 18 degrees. We have a lot of days in this area above 18. )</font>

Yes, a seer rating of 15 will save you money. I'm don't know of any air to air heat pumps that work to 18F. (Air to air units will have the compressor and condenser coil outside.) All of the units I know of stop about 40F. Then they have a resistance heater in the duct work to make up the difference. Now, if the electric company gives you a cheaper rate for installing the new unit then when the resistance heater kicks in it will not hurt your bill so much. Anything above 40F outdoor temp. this will be cheaper. I'm in New England, electric rates here are so high there is no way to heat with electric.
 
   / Heat pumps #4  
I'm in southern Ohio, probably pretty close to the same type of client you do. We have about a 2100 sq. ft. double-wide. It and the heat pump will be six years old in Oct. We burn through about 600 gal. of propane in a year w/ the heat pump being the primary heat source. I have our heat pump set to 30 degrees outside. Does OK down to there, anything below that and it feels cold in the house. I have no idea what our seer rating is on our unit. It does an OK job on both heat & cooling. Our electric bill runs us around $110 or so month +/-, though off hand I don't know what our kw rate is. BTW, we keep our thermostat set on 72 year round.

Haven't had any problems with other than the first winter or to it kept freezing up (Didn't know what it was doing at the time, thought it was having problems, and they even kept sending a repair technician). Complained to the manager at the place we bought the house from and then he asked if I was switching it over to the "emergency heat." I said know, I shouldn't have to do that all of the time. He said "Yes, because we didn't install the outside thermostat because you didn't said you wanted it. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" I promptly lit a fire under his, well you know where. There was an outside thermostat installed that afternoon. Haven't had a problem since. And I didn't pay extra for it either, even though they said it was an extra charge. I think they were just glad to get me out of the building. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="blue"> Edit Starts here: I guess I should add this: I have our heat pump set to 30 degress, anything lower than that and our propane furnace kicks in. No electric strips or anything like that, so I think we have the best of both worlds. Heat pump when the efficiency is there, warm heat on the really cold nights and standing beside a nice hot register when you were just outside and froze your *** off. </font> /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Heat pumps #5  
Heat pumps are great for efficiency, ufortunately at lower air temps they become inefficient. What happens with air to air systems is they cannot effeciciently extract heat from the outside air so they rely on electric heat strips, basically running straight electric heat which is EXPENSIVE. Now with geothermal heat pumps on the other hand it doesn't matter what teh outside temp is it always has the same efficiency, meaning any outside air tmep is fine the unit still operates the same. I coudl go into way too much and confuse you beyond belief but I wodul seriously check into it. Central IL is almost out of the air to air heat pump belt of the US, geothermal really has no belt though.
This site may help you a bit:
http://www.climatemaster.com/
 
   / Heat pumps #6  
Our company does somewhere around a thousand new systems a year. This is in southeastern Minnesota. Out of the thousand systems per year we may and this is a big may put one heat pump air to air in every three years. Most people are not happy with them. You may get some heat out of the system at 18 but it is very little. The air coming out of your registers is about 80 to 85 degrees which is lower than your body temperature so you always have this cold feeling. I know a lot of people will turn off the heat pumps and just use the electric resistence back up because of the cold temperatures. However, the .04 cents rate is a great rate. If gas prices stay up where they are which I expect they will you will save on the heat pump. Also expect higher service and maintenance with the heat pump.

murph
 
   / Heat pumps #7  
I'll second the previous posts. Heat Pumps are great to 30 degrees and then they are useless. They are nice in the hot days of the summer though.

Having a propane stove or two as backup in the winter is ideal.

I've had some good results with those little oil-filled radiators in the kids rooms.

In a 3500 sq ft. house our power bills average 100 in the cool months and maybe up to 150 in the coldest months but that doesn't include the propane in the coldest months. I went through about 300 gal of propane this winter but it was pretty mild in the NW.
 
   / Heat pumps #8  
pick up a copy of Mother Earth News for this month .

They have a big article on heat pumps. They talked about
running 400 to 600 feet of tubing 4 feet in the ground per ton for the outside heat exchanger instead of a air to air outside unit.

I live in NH so heat pumps don't work real well up here.
But that made me think about them

Dave in NH.
 
   / Heat pumps #9  
There are a number of comments posted that are not quite correct, and should be clairified.

Heat pumps do not lose much efficiency below 30 or 40 degrees. In fact a modern 10 SEER unit will deliver 2 watts of heat for every watt of electricity at 17 deg F. At 47 deg F the same unit delivers 3 watts of heat for each watt in. The problem is that the air-air heat pumps lose capacity, so that an 18,000 BTU unit will only deliver 8,000 BTUs in the low teens. This loss of capacity is due to the reduced temperature difference between the evaporating freon in the outside coils and the outside air temp. This reduces the amout of heat that can be absorbed, but also the pressure demands on the compressor drops, so the power being drawn also drops. To make up for the reduced capacity, backup heat is used.

I live in NE PA and our winters can get quite cold. I have 2 zones of heat pumps in the house, which is 16 years old. Backup heat does come on, but only for relatively short cycles, and usually only when the temp is in the low teens or below.

The only other issue is defrosting. Since the outside coils are colder than the outside air, when the dewpoint of the outside air is close to the air temperature (high relative humidity), frost and ice form on the outside coils. This reduces the airflow through the outside unit and the performance of the heatpump. To get rid of the built up ice, the heatpump "defrosts" by going into air conditioning mode. This warms the outside coils, melting the ice, but also blows cold air in the house, which is warmed up by activating the backup heat during defrost. This cycle can reduce the efficiency by additional use of backup heat, but only in specific outside air conditions.

I would suggest the following: geothermal units are highly efficient due to the constant source temperature. I considered installing them myself, but the differential cost was 5 times greater. That high purchase/install cost is still true today.

On an air-air unit, look for a high SEER. but the highest available is usually not worth the price, a 13 is a good payback, but a 15 is most likely not. Also look for a unit with an intelligent defrost system. These units measure coil temperatures and defrost only when required. Lower cost units use a simple thermostat and timer, and frequently defrost when not required, and the defrost cycle lasts longer than needed. York has a very effective system on it's higher end units.

Consider installing a unit that uses your propane for backup heat. These utilize a small gas fired hot air furnace in the air stream, rather than electric heating elements. This can significantly lower the heatpump operating costs, although the initial installation price will be higher.

Have the installation done by a guy who specializes in and primarily uses heat pumps. Due to the mentioned lower duct temperatures, airflow and supply and return register locations can make all the difference in the world. If you have an existing hot air system, it may be required to relocate some registers to optimize the systems operation. My installer spent a couple of days reviewing the house design and finding the optimum register locations. As a result we do not feel air blowing on us anywhere in the house, and never feel the "cold" air that some people complain about.

I have been very satisfied with heatpump heating and cooling and highly recommend them when asked.

paul
 
   / Heat pumps #10  
I heat my house with a ground source heat pump. We built and moved in to our house in 1985. From 85 to 96 we heated with oil. In 1996 we installed a ground source heat pump (GSHP). I'm a numbers sort of guy so I have all the energy usage and costs tabulated for both systems. In spite of the high purchase cost of the GSHP it is a wise investment. As energy prices rise it will become increasingly atractive. Presently no one I know (friends or family) heat their homes as inexpensively as we do. There is lots of info on the net. Do yourself a favor and investigate the GSHP. I am certainly glad I made the choice.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2001 TRIPLE E INDUSTRIES 48X102 TRI-AXLE STEP DECK (A52472)
2001 TRIPLE E...
2013 Dodge Charger Passenger Car, VIN # 2C3CDXATXDH646719 (A51572)
2013 Dodge Charger...
2015 PETERBILT 389 TRI-AXLE MID-ROOF SLEEPER (A52472)
2015 PETERBILT 389...
2014 FORD F-550 SUPER DUTY SERVICE TRUCK (A52472)
2014 FORD F-550...
2014 Dodge Charger (A52377)
2014 Dodge Charger...
2010 Ford Edge SE SUV (A51694)
2010 Ford Edge SE...
 
Top