Heat pumps

[deere755]

Thanks for all the replies and if anyone else can add something I would welcome all I can learn about them. I am not planning on using a heat pump by itself. As I understand from the salesman that was here the heat pump could be programmed to switch back to our propane furnace at any temp. we select it to through a programmable thermastat. It is just a way of cutting back on the amount o propane we use. I think if propane is a 1.29 and the heat pump will work for 4 cents per kw. it would save money when the temp is right for it to work. Am I wrong

 

[db2]

Prices for all energy (electricity and gas) will increase with time. If you plan to live in your present home for a long time and you want to have more disposable income, consider the most energy efficient heating source. That being the GSHP.

 

[woodchuckie]

My thermostat in the house automaticically turns on the aux. heat if the house temp. drops more than 2 degrees lower than the selected temp. When that happens both systems work together to raise the temp to the selected level. Heat pumps work great here in the South.

 

[DennisArrow]

Here in N. Ga I have 2 heat pump units.........they are for back up entirely................THE CHEAPEST source of heat is for me to go out...........split a couple of cords of wood and USE THAT for heat..............

Have lived in this home for 8 years now........put in the wood stove 5 years ago............My ten acres of hickorys and oaks produces all the dead fall that I can ever use.........

We do use the heat pump this time of year when one wakes up with just a bit of a chill in the home but not worth buildin the fire..................WOOD is the long term heat source as far as I am concerned.............wish it would power my F250........Dennis

 

[farmerpsv]

hey all,
am building a house and am strongly considering geothermal since i'm hoping this will be my final resting place, the extra cost over air to air is acceptable to me, especially with the volatility of propane cost, and the nasty heat strip that always throws my bill outta wack 2-3 months a year (where i'm at). anyway, in my travels found a system that looks pretty neat that uses refrigerant in the ground loop instead of water/coolant. system also uses copper instead of poly so the heat exchange is better. uses a much smaller loop, eliminates the extra exchanger, cheaper to install and more efficient. looks pretty cool, what do you think? other than the fear of burying copper in acid soil and the refrigerant leak that would result, what would be the down side?
here's a site with info that's good
www.ecrtech.com

 

[techman]

I too am considering a concversion to a GS heatpump from the air-air units. The direct bury freon-copper scheme from what I have found seems to be more of a problem. Locally I found several installers that tried, and will no longer use this system. I do not know the brand(s) in question, but there is a problem of copper corrosion in certain soils. Even a coated copper tube can be damaged in installation, or by rocks, and potentially corrode through. However the bigger problem seems to be a basic design issue. The freon line, during heating, has temperatures that are quite low. The soil actually has a relatively poor heat flow (which is why you need such long trenches in conventional systems), and the poor heat flow results in localized freezing of the soil around the freon line. This first of all will lower the capacity of the unit (due to a reduced differential temperature between freon and earth) and causes what was called "tundra effect". I heard of a number of installations, that were correct "by the book", that resulted in large frozen areas of the ground. Common complaints were that any precipitation would freeze on that part of the yard, from fall to spring. One guy had it installed under what became his driveway, which was iced for 3 or 4 months a year. It seems that it is not practical to really spread out the length of tubing that the freon line should slowly absorb heat, to the several hundred feet needed for ground heat flow. The result is a real cold spot.

I would try to get referenced (best not from the mfg direct) on installations and ask how it has worked. The antifreeze solution with plastic tubing, while more complex, seems to better match the thermal characteristics of the ground, and is a better overall solution.

I am considering a system from ClimateMaster.

paul

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

I am considering a system from ClimateMaster.

paul
)</font>

My "day job" is as maint. Engineer at a large country club. We have 56,000 sq ft. under roof. We use Friedrich/ClimateMaster water source heat pumps (With a cooling tower/boiler/heat exchanger) for heat and A-C. The system has been in place since 1986. I have 36 seperate units to deal with. Of the 36, all but 3 have been replaced with new units. 10 have been replaced 2 times. 2 units have been replaced FOUR TIMES... We have had a number of problems that are BRAND related, as opposed to common heat pump problems. Poor lifespans of condensate pans, leaking "coax coils". and mainly, bad control design. We continued to use ClimateMaster units as replacements because of their "drop in replacement" convenience. No need to re-do ductwork, piping, ect....

As of Jan. 1, 2004, I'm replacing them as needed with Carrier units. Very simular in size and configuration, but with a dramatically better history of performance industry-wide.

I don't have ANY background with ClimateMasters residential equipment, but don't care much for their commercial stuff.... (OR their tech service dept.....)

 

[slowzuki]

Direct bury refridgerant loops are bad news if I ever heard it. Copper doesn't last in many soil types and purging / filling the system every time it leaks would be a pain.

Water / water ground source pumps have the refridgerant hermetically sealed from the factory. They do have some extra components but they are stuff a regular joe can repair.

 

[techman]

Thanks for the info. I have researched a lot, and talked to quite a number of installer/users. The general feedback on the ClimateMaster RESIDENTIAL units has been good/very good. This of course is not necessarily a reliable type of endorsement, and your experience adds to the mix for sure.

I need to try to qualify if the commercial units are same/similar and also if the commercial application, cooling tower water rather than closed antifreeze loop, might be a factor in heat exchanger corrosion, and so on.

Thanks for the update.

paul

 

[farmerpsv]

thanks for the input.
not alot of locals do the geothermal , non do the freon loop so may be moot. still i appreciate the tech input techman, probably stick with a water/coolant loop. am considering "waterfurnace"
thanks again
paul also