heat tracing well water line in vermont

[Cord]

In order to have running water this winter at my camp in Vt. I need to dig up and replace the water line. I want to heat trace, insulate and encapsulate in 4" pvc. Now the well company I had installed the well say's I cannot bury heat tracing under ground. I'm at a loss for words. Because of ledge, I'm only 1-2ft. under ground @ 100ft. in length. Can any Green Mountain men up there shed some light on this problem. I'm off grid. Ken

I've had shallow well lines before that have frozen. I solved the problem by placing two layers of 2" insulation above it. Two layers are used so the joints can be staggered. The ground is naturally warm and the insulation prevents the frost from driving as deep. Lived in that house for another 10 years after the line was insulated and it never froze again.

 

[tcartwri]

My preference is for 6 watt/ft installed inside of the water line. (they sell special fittings to do this)

Do you have a link for this fitting? Need to put one in my sump pump outlet.

 

[nybirdman]

Do you have a link for this fitting? Need to put one in my sump pump outlet.

I wouldn't do that;empty line and the element will burn a hole/start a fire.They are made to be submersed in water.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Been there, done that!
We are in Quebec, north of Montreal and it gets cold in winters.
On our lake there is minimal soil covering the bed rock in many places.
I have installations that are merely 1 ft deep and heat 'tracing wire' is the solution.

Frost line is considered to be about 4' in this area.
Tracing wire is sold in 2 types, 3 watts/ft and 6 watts/ft.
The 6 watt version will thaw a frozen line while the 3 watt version will not. Tracing wire also comes in 110 VAC or 220 VAC depending on available power. I know of installations that are over 300 ft long and operating for over 25 years without any problems.
My preference is for 6 watt/ft installed inside of the water line. (they sell special fittings to do this)

Note that the modern tracing lines only heat in the zones that need heat and therefor draw minimal current.

Do you have a link for this fitting? Need to put one in my sump pump outlet.

I wouldn't do that;empty line and the element will burn a hole/start a fire.They are made to be submersed in water.

No. PTC based tapes vary heat output at every point along their length according to how warm that particular point is. Heat produced in an air gap or insulation progressively decreases with T and virtually stops when T reaches 150F. Only in near perfect insulation like a thermos bottle would there be any chance of reaching burn T.

The only issue I see in being in contact with the water is the intimacy of the heat exchange. It is likely to keep the water a lot warmer than necessary and waste a good bit of power over time.

 

[PILOON]

These modern tracing lines are thermoplastics, warm they do not conduct electricity, cold they become a conductor.
Generally they are 12" sections in that (eg) the 1st 10 ft are cold and the next 2-3 can be warm followed by cold.
As such for heat tracing they are ideal,
Older devices were like a 60-100 ft oven heater element (Pyrotinax being one example) that had a probe controlled switch.
Those styles, while doing the job, were costly and depended on the probes location. Often the water entered the house kinda warm as the whole line was heated even thou you only had a few cold areas.
The newer thermoplastic tracer wires are very efficient and very economical to operate.
Also hits are available to install the tracing wire inside of a water line, generally a "T" with appropriate seal where the tracing line is inserted into the water line.
While outer tracing line works, the preferred method is inner insertion.

 

[SPYDERLK]

These modern tracing lines are thermoplastics, warm they do not conduct electricity, cold they become a conductor.
Generally they are 12" sections in that (eg) the 1st 10 ft are cold and the next 2-3 can be warm followed by cold.
As such for heat tracing they are ideal,
Older devices were like a 60-100 ft oven heater element (Pyrotinax being one example) that had a probe controlled switch.
Those styles, while doing the job, were costly and depended on the probes location. Often the water entered the house kinda warm as the whole line was heated even thou you only had a few cold areas.
The newer thermoplastic tracer wires are very efficient and very economical to operate.
Also hits are available to install the tracing wire inside of a water line, generally a "T" with appropriate seal where the tracing line is inserted into the water line.
While outer tracing line works, the preferred method is inner insertion.

,,,,,,,,,,Excuse me:

No. PTC based tapes vary heat output at every point along their length according to how warm that particular point is. Heat produced in an air gap, or more insulated areas, progressively decreases with the T the tape reaches, and virtually stops when T reaches 150F. Only in near perfect insulation like a thermos bottle would there be any chance of reaching melting or burn T.

The only issue I see in being in contact with the water is the intimacy of the heat exchange. It is likely to keep the water a lot warmer than necessary and waste a good bit of power over time.

PTC tapes do not do warm cold intervals. They heat according to need at every point in their length. Warm/cold intervals would defeat the totally adaptive advantage they offer, endangering freezing. ... It would also require special production arrangements to go back and forth between active adaptive areas and non heating passive areas. A very special production arrangement costing $ but resulting in an inferior product.

,,,,,Ridiculous.

 

[Sprinklerman]

here is a thought , maybe bring in some dirt and add 2 to 3 foot of cover over the line . I dont know the layout , but it is simple .

 

[SPYDERLK]

here is a thought , maybe bring in some dirt and add 2 to 3 foot of cover over the line . I dont know the layout , but it is simple .

Should help. Can you tolerate such a ridge?

 

[fitter1]

Adding more dirt will also be done. The insertion type heater will also be done with insulation pipe casing and 4 inches of insulation board. I hope I will not need the heat trace because a generator would be involved. Heading back up there today. Thanks for all your input. It appears this can be done.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Adding more dirt will also be done. The insertion type heater will also be done with insulation pipe casing and 4 inches of insulation board. I hope I will not need the heat trace because a generator would be involved. Heading back up there today. Thanks for all your input. It appears this can be done.

Width of your insulation board "shield" is important, otherwise heat will go around it. I think a foot wide would be marginal.