Helicopter flight altitude question???

RobertN · Sep 6, 2005

I live right off a major artery here in these parts. As a bird flies, Highway 50(4-lane highway) is barely a mile away, maybe a bit less. We're far enough away, that traffic noise is not an issue.

We have seen a substantial increase in helicopter traffic over the last 8-10 months. It appears to me, that many are cruising the H-50 corrider on their way to wherever they are going. I se a variety; rescue/medic, highway patrol, tv-news, private, and military.

They would not bother me, except that they sure seem to fly low, and LOUD(especially the military). Some fly at higher altitudes which is nice. But, a lot are coming over low. I am terrible at guesstimating stuff like that, but I would have to think some of these are coming in below 500', and many well below 1000'.

Is there a reason for these to fly so low? I have no idea about the operation of Helicopters for flight altitude, fuel consumption at the flight deck ect. Is there a typical travel altitude for them?

It is odd that this seems to be happening more lately. We have always had them flying over, but not as many.

I have worked on fire engines, and have had opportunity to load patients on rescue/medic helicopters; I understand why they may fly low to find and approach an emergency scene. The rest though, I just wish they'd fly higher so the thump-thump-thump was not so obnoxious...

Bird · Sep 6, 2005

Robert, way back in the stone age, when I was commander of the helicopter section of the police department, and we were using Bell 47s, that was the only complaint we got; the noise. Now why they fly at the altitude they do in your area is something about which I have no idea. There are, of course, some FAA regulations that are supposed to be followed, and since my experience was over 30 years ago, I don't know what those regulations are any more. We stayed on good terms with the FAA and spent more time flying at 1000' than any other altitude. Of course Dallas does have some hills and a river; i.e., some low land, but varies from about 300' to 500' above sea level, so we were 500 to 700 feet off the ground. We didn't have all the fancy equipment in those days so we wanted to be low enough to see things with only the naked eye or a pair of binoculars. At the same time, we wanted to be high enough (and keep moving instead of hovering) to have a chance at picking a landing spot if the engine should die. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

LarryRB · Sep 6, 2005

Bird
If you were flying 47's, you must have been in the "pull over leather helmet days" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
At least in our Huey's we had a plastic helmet.. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

r0GuE · Sep 7, 2005

If you are near an airport, they may be trying to stay inder a certain altitude to keep clear of class B airspace. 500' is not too hard to believe, and seems reasonable of that highway cooridor is not heavily residential. 1000' is probably closer to where they really are. around here, most single engine light aircraft tend to putter around at 1 to 2 thousand AGL (above ground level). I see helos (normally medical) at 500-1000 all the time, but we have a hospital 4 miles away. Although, I'm not convined they climb too much en route to other locs.

RobertN · Sep 7, 2005

The nearest airports used by copters are 10 miles east(small plane, copter), and about 20 miles west(Old SAC base). There is also one small airport about 5 miles NW of here. My area is a primarily rural setting. We are in an approach path to Mather field; it is a revamped SAC airbase turned civilian. But, that approach has been here since forever practically. As a kid, I lived closer to the base, and used to watch SAC B52's do practice emergency scrambles(wild watching all those B52's go up only a few seconds apart). That approach is usually pretty quiet too, at least with the cargo planes that primarily use Mather.

In the 11 years we have been in this house, we have always had a copter come over now and then. But it's just the last year that there has been a very noticable increase in traffic, especially low traffic.

Jimbrown · Sep 7, 2005

The air space around any controlled airport is restricted and no air craft can enter that area without permission of approach control or the tower. The air space at the actual airport goes all the way to the ground but as you move away from the airport the bottom of the controlled airspace goes up in sort of an upside down stairs configuration. The tower or approach controll is probably telling the copters to stay under the controlled air space in order to make it eaisier for them to get to the airport and approach controll does not have to worry about keeping track of them.They fly over known points (the interstate) because when they call the tower the tower knows exactly where to look and does not have to go hunting for them. I would guess they are even being told to fly a specific route. I would guess they are flying about 500ft but could be as low 200ft. When I was flying copters in most cases the towers would have the copters land at a special pad or on the parking ramps and did not land copters on the runways. This was inorder to keep the runways clear for airplanes. The larger and busier the airport the more likely they are keeping the copters out of the controlled airspace as long as possible and landing them on parking ramps.

Dennisfly · Sep 7, 2005

Robert,

What follows is the pertinent section of the Federal Aviation Regulations (14 CFR part 91.119):

§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

I was an FAA inspector for 9 years and it was my experience that it is very hard to prove "hazard" for the purposes of section "(d)". At 500 feet or less a helicopter with forward speed can have a total power failure and still maneuver to avoid people or property on the ground.

Since your is an issue of noise, I would look in the phone book for the closest FAA Air Traffic Control Tower or Flight Standards District Office and complain to them. If it is mostly military aircraft that are low and loud I would attempt to identify where they are based and complain to the facility commander.

Some helicopters fly low to avoid fixed wing traffic and to stay below busy restricted airspace at higher altitudes. Or, if the cloud ceiling is low they fly to remain beneath it. If none of these factors are present there is no reason they cannot fly a little higher to help please the neighbors. Remember, "The squeeky wheel gets the grease".