Hello from East Texas

[rScotty]

Ok, still having issues on my 52 8n side distributer 12v tractor. Waiting on key switch, hung up in houston. Usps. Enough said on that. I jumped the switch out and still didnt have very good fire. Changed out coil and i started right up. Alrighty then. Ran great for two days but this morning wont start. It was 35 degrees outside. Waited till after lunch, 45 degrees outside. Started right up. What can i check or adjust or change to fix a tractor that wont start in cold weather ?

Ok. So on one hand we know that it can run fine with what it has.... and on the other hand we know that it doesn't always do so. That could be anything, but it tends to be just what you are thinking - it's probably electrical.

Did anything else change except the temperature? Anything at all? Did you drive it around? Add fuel? Check the spark? Bend the spark cables?? Pull the rotor?
We're needing to find another clue here....

rScotty

BTW,
The reason we usually replace all the old battery & coil electrical tuneup parts when we do a tune-up is because they can wear out in a fashion that is difficult to test. Or irratic. That is, they end up neither good nor bad....but somewhere inbetween.

That's because when electrical components are new, no matter what their job is, they they are generally designed to be a combination of parts that conduct electricity and and parts that don't. When they age, that line becomes blurred. Especially with the older stuff that used cotton fiber based insulation and hard plastics. Those old parts just didn't last as well as modern stuff. When we say "didn't last as well as modern stuff", what we mean is that those old electrical components get "internally leaky" from unwanted conduction paths.
It's one of the few times old mechanics will admit that newer is often better.

 

[Rick01]

I tried to start the tractor monday morning (35 degrees outside ) turned over fine, wouldnt start. Went back out later (45 degrees ) started right up. Tried again about an hour later, wouldnt start. Jump resistor, fired right up. Started it several times later in the day without jumping resistor, started right up. I dont know if the cold had anything to do with it or not. Or the resistor. I did replace the coil a couple days ago and starts better now but still not all the time. All my tune up parts and new key switch is here so i will change all that out this weekend. Gonna spend a good bit of time checking wiring, connections and anything else i can think of. Thx

 

[Rick01]

Scotty, i did pull the distributor cap off the last time it wouldnt start but didnt pull rotor or points cover.

 

[Soundguy]

Check all connections , battery, ground, everything.

Also, how old is the battery. If its getting marginal, it will run ok in average conditions, and maybe not in worse conditions.

Does the resistor have rusty crimped connections?

While this isn't specifically part of the electrical troubleshooting, if you have a comp tester, do a dry then wet, to evaluate your rings and valves.

90 psi is the spec minimum.. It will certainly start and run and do useable work with less. If less however, in non optimal conditions, you may see problems.

For instance, if your comps are in the 70's, and you ate in Florida, it will probably start fine.. In Maine in the winter? May be reluctant on the first start of the day..

 

[rScotty]

Check all connections , battery, ground, everything.

Also, how old is the battery. If its getting marginal, it will run ok in average conditions, and maybe not in worse conditions.

Does the resistor have rusty crimped connections?

While this isn't specifically part of the electrical troubleshooting, if you have a comp tester, do a dry then wet, to evaluate your rings and valves.

90 psi is the spec minimum.. It will certainly start and run and do useable work with less. If less however, in non optimal conditions, you may see problems.

For instance, if your comps are in the 70's, and you ate in Florida, it will probably start fine.. In Maine in the winter? May be reluctant on the first start of the day..

Soundguy, I'm with you on the connections. Connections are everything. I'd say that at least half the electrical problems I've dealt with have been bad connections. House, barn, car, & tractor. I don't just suspect each and every connection....I like to take it loose and make it better.

OK Rick. That sounds good with those parts. Get a battery for the multimeter, too. We might get a chance to use it.
Do you think that the wiring on that old '52 side distributor 8N is anywhere near to being stock?
Hope so...
BTW, Jax's style needs some tender touchup work, but his experience & info is still worth listening to.
rScotty

 

[Soundguy]

One more thing.. A side mount on 12v? I'd ditch the resistor and run a real, native 12v coil, like a Napa ic14sb.

2 less connections to deal with...

 

[Rick01]

Quick question here, the coil i put on says it has an internal resistor but several people on other forums say there is no such thing. ?? Do i need an external resistor with this coil ?

 

[Soundguy]

Conventionally, there is no such thing.

Post EXACTLY what your coil says. Most common wording is :

NO EXTERNAL RESISTANCE REQUIRED

meaning the coil is wound with the correct diameter and # of turns of wire for native 12v operation.

EXTERNAL RESISTANCE REQUIRED

Or

EXTERNAL SERIAL RESISTANCE REQUIRED

Means it is usually a 6v or 8v coil in a 12v application, and needs a series resistor so that primary current is not too high.

Post what yours says. If you have a native 12v coil AND a resistor you are trying to win a fist fight with a hand tied behind your back.

 

[Rick01]

That is all it says. 12 v coil with internal resistor. Bought it in a tune up kit from ebay.

 

[rScotty]

That is all it says. 12 v coil with internal resistor. Bought it in a tune up kit from ebay.

OK then... My best guess is you can use it just as it is. You don't need the external resistor. In fact you don't want that resistor connected in any way. Just bypass it.

Then just as Soundguy says....I also don't know what kind of coil you have there. But A native 12 volt coil should not require any kind of resistor; normally it gets its necessary resistance from the number and diameter of the wire used inside the ignition coil.
Frankly I would prefer to use any native 12 volt ignition coil - like the one Soundguy said or a Standard Products UC15T. They are all the same and about $20. Basically any of the standard 12 volt automotive ignition coils from the 1960s would be fine....actually even preferable because we would know what it is.

BTW, one of the ways you can kill a good ignition coil is to use it with spark plug leads that have an internal break in the conductor. Carbon filament spark plug cable was particularly bad about having internal breaks in that manner - as were some spark-suppression spark plug caps from the same era that had an internal carbon resistor. Neither that type of cable or cap is used anymore, but were common in the 1960s. They kept the static down in transistor radios of that era.

The reason why those cables and caps were bad was because when either component had an internal break it forced the spark to jump elsewhere than in the spark plug. If the secondary voltage jumped inside of the ignition coil secondary windings it would weaken and eventually kill the coil.

Some speculative history:Where did ignition resistors come from and why?? I'm thinking that series resistors got added to existing 6 volt ignition coils as an interim step for a couple of years while cars and tractors were changing the traditional 6 volt systems to the new, modern 12 volt systems. It enabled existing 6 volt coils to be used with the new 12 volt ignitions. This change took place roughly during the 1950s. Our 1954 Ford was 6 volt and our 1959 Chevy was 12 volt.
The series resistor was needed to make a 6 volt coil work in a 12 volt system without danger of overheating. Within a couple of years we had ignition coils that were wound properly to work in 12 volt systems without overheating or the need for resistors...and that was the end of ignition resistors.

Enough on coil!!

rScotty