Hello

Ken AZ · May 9, 2011

Hi All,

New to the forum and looking to purchase my first utility tractor/mower. I'm considering a Ventrac 4200 or a PT 425. I'm leaning towards the PT because of price and overall versatility. However, I'm really concerned about the Subaru/Robin engine. From what I've read, it looks like it is the 'weak link' in the PT system. I called PT and they said the 425 is only available with the Robin engine. So, my question. When did PT stop using the Kohler engine and where should I look for a used PT 425 with a Kohler?

I'm retired and live in rural east/central Arizona on 30 acres of high desert juniper and grass. Primary uses will be mowing about 4 acres of uneven ground around the house (two to three times a year) and bucket work - hauling gravel, mulch, road maintenance and general landscaping. I could probably get by with the Ventrac without the FEL, but really like the versatility of the PT. I'm afraid that if I get the Ventrac, I'll end up wishing I got the PT once I experience first hand the value of a small utility tractor.

Thanks in advance.

Ken

J_J · May 9, 2011

Look here for some used Power-Trac's.

Used Power Tracs

MossRoad · May 9, 2011

Welcome to TBN!

Not sure of the year PT stopped using Kohler engines. I love my 2001 with the Kohler, though. :laughing:

However, newer models of PT425s have a higher lift height and some other design changes that make them a better machine. Also, I think I read somewhere that the newer PTs with the Robin engines have fuel injection, which seems to help with cold weather starting.

What temps do you experience in your part of AZ?

Ken AZ · May 9, 2011

JJ,

Thanks for the link.

MR,

We get into the high 90's for a couple of weeks in the summer and usually in the low 20's during the winter. However, this winter we hit -10 degrees on two different occasions. We always get snow in the winter, but usually only 6-10 inches and only for a week at a time.

Gravy · May 9, 2011

AZ Ken,

As far as I know, the Robin's biggest weakness is starting in cold weather. There have been a few other problems, but the Kohler has a few serious problems too. Even Honda V-twins have some serious issues. They are all built to a price point, they all have weak spots, and none of them are as reliable as a Toyota Camry.

If you don't need it to start in sub-freezing temperatures without outside help, the Robin should do just fine.

Clumber · May 9, 2011

Gravy said:
AZ Ken,

As far as I know, the Robin's biggest weakness is starting in cold weather. There have been a few other problems, but the Kohler has a few serious problems too. Even Honda V-twins have some serious issues. They are all built to a price point, they all have weak spots, and none of them are as reliable as a Toyota Camry.

If you don't need it to start in sub-freezing temperatures without outside help, the Robin should do just fine.

It is my recent experience that the newer PT 425s with the Robin EH72D engine does not have the starting issues that plagued older machines. I bought one in Dec 2010. It was stored this Winter in an unheated garage. It would start on 2-3 tries at full choke and run smoothly quickly even at 15 degrees. I think the easier starting comes from being equipped with a larger battery, bigger starter, and hotter plugs.

PT still does not use the Fuel Injected Robin engine in the PT 425s. It is hoped that they will do so in the future.

Ken AZ · May 9, 2011

Clumber said:
It is my recent experience that the newer PT 425s with the Robin EH72D engine does not have the starting issues that plagued older machines. I bought one in Dec 2010. It was stored this Winter in an unheated garage. It would start on 2-3 tries at full choke and run smoothly quickly even at 15 degrees. I think the easier starting comes from being equipped with a larger battery, bigger starter, and hotter plugs.

PT still does not use the Fuel Injected Robin engine in the PT 425s. It is hoped that they will do so in the future.

Clumber,

I really appreciate the first hand current information. I guess I thought this might be the case, as PT is still in business, even with the bad economy.

But your reply brings up more questions. With hotter plugs (and I assume no other engineering change) won't the engine run hotter and thus have an overall shorter life? Also, what effect, if any, would my elevation (5740') have on a non injected engine with hotter plugs?

Again, thanks for all your responses.

sandman2234 · May 9, 2011

Welccome Ken!!
I am limited in my experience to only seeing one PT, so I will leave this discussion to the more experienced, but wanted welcome you. Don't get over to the other board much these days.
David from jax

toy · May 10, 2011

Gravy said:
AZ Ken,

As far as I know, the Robin's biggest weakness is starting in cold weather. There have been a few other problems, but the Kohler has a few serious problems too. Even Honda V-twins have some serious issues. They are all built to a price point, they all have weak spots, and none of them are as reliable as a Toyota Camry.

If you don't need it to start in sub-freezing temperatures without outside help, the Robin should do just fine.

You know come to think of it I remember about a year or two ago even on the news they were talking about how good the Toyota Camry is. As well as I remember they was talking about them being unstoppable. Now you can't get better press than that, lol.

Clumber · May 10, 2011

Ken AZ said:
Clumber,

I really appreciate the first hand current information. I guess I thought this might be the case, as PT is still in business, even with the bad economy.

But your reply brings up more questions. With hotter plugs (and I assume no other engineering change) won't the engine run hotter and thus have an overall shorter life? Also, what effect, if any, would my elevation (5740') have on a non injected engine with hotter plugs?

Again, thanks for all your responses.

By hotter plugs, I meant related to the old spec for the older engines. These were enhancements Robin made a few years ago to respond to difficult starting complaints here on TBN. This was reported by Robin factory rep and forum member JackRobin. (I tried to find that old post to no avail.) My post is only related to recent expierence with the stock EH72D engine in my PT. We will have to wait for engine life observations.

I really like the Ventracs, my first choice for mowing and snow blowing -- high-tech tractor and attachments -- very expensive -- dealer network, 9% discounts -- not really a loader. PTs -- lower tech but tank-like reliability -- less expensive -- DIY, built with off the shelf parts, 5% discount on tractor only -- excellent loader -- factory difficult to contact during hunting season.

I made a list of chores and projects I would be doing over the next 5 years. I then compared the capabilities of tractor plus attachments vs cost to achieve those objectives. The bottom line was tractor plus attachments cost comparison: PT: $26,000+; Ventrac: $40,000+ -- (with a subset of attachments I thought I really needed).

Overall conclusion: Ventracs are more confortable to use -- PTs are acceptable with several annoyances I can learn to live with and can afford more attachments. Ideal would be two tractors (Ventracs for mowing and snow blowing) -- concluded could not afford both, maintenance required for both...

Note, that FI engines are best choice if available. They are not currently available for PT 425. However, you can always ask PT to drop one in for you. But, don't get your hopes up.