Help choosing hydraulic fluid

[FF117]

Does anyone have an opinion on Sam's Club Heavy Duty Hydraulic/Transmission oil? I've done a search, but haven't found much. I'm due for 50hr service and the dealer recommended to just get my fluid wherever. Manual says Texaco TDH or Chevron Tractor HYD fluid, but nobody in my area carries these. Walmart has Rotella Tractor Hydraulic fluid, but $57 for 5 gal seems steep. Sam's Club is $33 for 5 gal and has several manufacturers ratings listed (J20C, MS-1209, M1143, ect). I've posted this in the Branson forum also. Thanks

 

[Diamondpilot]

Compare the specs of the Sams Club fluid to the specs of one he recommends. I bet you will find they are a equal match.

Chris

 

[FF117]

Compare the specs of the Sams Club fluid to the specs of one he recommends. I bet you will find they are a equal match.

Chris

Interesting you say that, because the Texaco TDH is specifically formulated to meet J20C and the Sam's Club oil meets J20C. I assume this means that it will work fine, but I have reservations about putting generic oil in a 6 month old tractor that is still under warranty.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If it makes you feel better buy the expensive stuff. I do for some of my applications then on others I just buy what is on sale. I do about 100 oil changes per year along with tranny fluids, diff fluids, ect. Never had a oil failure.

Its more important to keep clean fluid in it than the name brand.

Chris

 

[kjung17]

Interesting you say that, because the Texaco TDH is specifically formulated to meet J20C and the Sam's Club oil meets J20C. I assume this means that it will work fine, but I have reservations about putting generic oil in a 6 month old tractor that is still under warranty.

It's real easy to put some numbers on the side of the bucket. It doesn't, necessarily, mean the oil inside meets those standards. On the other hand, the generic oil could have been packaged in the same facility as your manufacturer recommended oil. There's no way to tell, without a lab test. Your best bet, during the warranty period is the manufacturer recommended oil. No finger pointing in the event of a failure.

 

[Storm56]

If you have any Napa stores by you, the difference can be split. I bought Napa premium UTF for $47 for a 5 gallon pail last fall. Made by Valvoline. Works just fine. Been using it for the last few changes in my tractors with no issues.

 

[Jay4200]

Does anyone have an opinion on Sam's Club Heavy Duty Hydraulic/Transmission oil? I've done a search, but haven't found much. I'm due for 50hr service and the dealer recommended to just get my fluid wherever. Manual says Texaco TDH or Chevron Tractor HYD fluid, but nobody in my area carries these. Walmart has Rotella Tractor Hydraulic fluid, but $57 for 5 gal seems steep. Sam's Club is $33 for 5 gal and has several manufacturers ratings listed (J20C, MS-1209, M1143, ect). I've posted this in the Branson forum also. Thanks

I have a 2600-hour Kubota L4200 w/ Glide-shift transmission. I don't know what was in it when I bought it, but based on the condition of the tractor, it was probably Kubota SUDT. Although the machine was in terrific shape when I got it, I know it was completely unmaintained during the PO's 200 hour tenure, and the transmission level was low due to a seeping site glass. I topped off the transmission with Sam's Club Heavy Duty Hydraulic/Transmission and changed the hydraulic filter. I ran the tractor for about 500 hours over 5 years w/o addressing the fluid or filter, other than topping off the level with more Sam's fluid a couple of times (shameful, I know) and added a total of 3-4 gallons out of the original 5 gallon bucket. Most of my use was primarily hydraulic (backhoe work), so it is probably light usage in terms of the transmission and/or fluid.

I recently did a full 10 gallon transmission fluid and filter change ("Yay", my tractor said) using Sam's Club oil. It looked similar in color and viscosity to the oil that I drained, for what that's worth. Sam's club oil is a UDT equivalent (20W), and my tractor is supposed to use SUDT (10W) - the lighter-weight SUDT is designed for cold-weather operation. That being said, I've been running my tractor all winter for snowblowing, and it definitely DOES pause a second or two between shifts before moving when I first take it out - which is not unexpected. Within 5-10 minutes, however, it warms up and reacts pretty much instantly upon shifting. I'm satisfied, and feel better off saving the $150 - I'm willing to wait the few minutes while the oil heats up.

JayC

 

[FF117]

Thanks for the replies. I never thought I would have this much trouble choosing an oil, but it seems that every auto parts and retail store has their own version of hydraulic fluid. It's probably all the same oil in different buckets, but the distributors aren't willing to share that information. I guess the big question is whether I will be liable if I use the cheap fluid and the transmission fails under warranty.

Anyway, I found a Chevron distributer about 20 miles away who carries the fluid recommended in my manual and I also found a Shell distributor here that carries an exact match to the recommended Texaco TDH oil (Shell Donax TD). Of course, they are both $59/5 gal. I suppose it will be about 3 years before I have to change the oil again, so it will cost me $26/year for peace of mind. Probably just wasting money, but maybe I'll just use the expensive stuff until it's out of warranty.

Does anyone know of a place that will lab test an oil? It would be interesting to know exactly what some of the cheaper oils are. I'd be willing to send off a sample of the Sam's oil if it wasn't too expensive.

 

[kjung17]

That's pretty cheap piece of mind. I'm sure there are other kits out there. This is what I'm familiar with. The kits are about $15.
OILSCAN Home

 

[KennyV]

The idea of using overpriced oil in something, until it is out of warranty, makes no sense at all...

If I were to use some type 'magic' high priced oil... it would be on an old almost worn out machine. With the idea that the 'magic' would keep it going...

What kind of scary verbiage is in the warranty that makes people believe that Kubota requires a particular brand oil?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I will give my 2Cents on this topic again. Many think that they have to use Kubota oils in their machines just because Kubota sells it, it must be the best stuff. I will say again, there is no Kubota refinery anywhere in the world making KUBOTA oils. They buy from a supplier that they cut a deal with to sell them the cheapest oil that will meet their specification so they can mark it up a heck of a lot and sell it to folks thinking it is THE BEST. If it is made by a refinery to an API grade it will meet that spec. If it meets the spec for the grade of oil specified, then it meets or exceeds that spec. No one puts something on a can and says it meets an API spec if it doesnt( well maybe in Nigeria). They can all be traced back to the manufacturer if you need to. Use whatever brand makes you feel good and gives you peace of mind. IF that is $100 per quart Super Majjic" oil or $2 per quart meets the spec oil, buy whatever you want. It has all been tested to meet the API certifying agency requirements if it has that cert on the label and no manufacturer is going to void your warranty if you show that you used the correct grade and spec of oil.

 

[KennyV]

I will give my 2Cents on this topic again. Many think that they have to use Kubota oils in their machines just because Kubota sells it, it must be the best stuff. I will say again, there is no Kubota refinery anywhere in the world making KUBOTA oils. They buy from a supplier that they cut a deal with to sell them the cheapest oil that will meet their specification so they can mark it up a heck of a lot and sell it to folks thinking it is THE BEST. If it is made by a refinery to an API grade it will meet that spec. If it meets the spec for the grade of oil specified, then it meets or exceeds that spec. No one puts something on a can and says it meets an API spec if it doesnt( well maybe in Nigeria). They can all be traced back to the manufacturer if you need to. Use whatever brand makes you feel good and gives you peace of mind. IF that is $100 per quart Super Majjic" oil or $2 per quart meets the spec oil, buy whatever you want. It has all been tested to meet the API certifying agency requirements if it has that cert on the label and no manufacturer is going to void your warranty if you show that you used the correct grade and spec of oil.

Gary ... that is what I have always known...
I was just wondering what kind of language was written into some of these peoples warranties that caused them to think they had to use Kubota oils to "protect themselves" and their warranty.. That is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever came across... KennyV

 

[Jay4200]

Gary ... that is what I have always known...
I was just wondering what kind of language was written into some of these peoples warranties that caused them to think they had to use Kubota oils to "protect themselves" and their warranty.. That is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever came across... KennyV

Especially with hydro-trans fluid. I might consider spending more for a motor oil, although I'm a fan of cheap oil changed often rather than expensive oil changed infrequently. A tractor transmission and hydraulic system is a pretty low-stress environment, all things considered.

JayC

 

[Soundguy]

If it makes you feel better buy the expensive stuff. I do for some of my applications then on others I just buy what is on sale. I do about 100 oil changes per year along with tranny fluids, diff fluids, ect. Never had a oil failure.

Its more important to keep clean fluid in it than the name brand.

Chris

ditto that. I buy usualy whatever utf is on sale between walmart or tractor supply. both seem to be a warren distributed oil anyway. for instance.. tomorrow looks like tsc gets my monet as they are a buck 25 per gallon cheaper than walmart.. and i'm buying quite a few pales.. so it adds up.

ditto on clean oil that match yer machines specs and at correct intervals.


soundguy

 

[FF117]

Just so you guys know, I don't own a Kubota, I own a Branson. If my manual listed a particular spec, then I would use any oil that meets that spec. However, my manual lists two specific oils (neither of which are available locally) and they meet many specs. So if I use an oil that isn't listed, which spec should I go by. I made an assumption that J20C was the needed spec, but really don't know for sure. So that left me with the question of whether to use a direct cross-reference (expensive) oil or take a shot on the generic oil that lists several of the same specs. Didn't mean to start any trouble, just thought I would get some opinions. Maybe I just stated my question poorly.

Also, maybe I should go through my warranty paperwork with a fine toothed comb.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Soundguy]

find an oil that meets the same spec as the oils listed in yer manual..

soundguy

 

[nrrd]

Speaking of tractor hydraulic-transmission fluids, the "cheap" brands out there all almost always made from napthenic base crude oils and the premium grade fluids will almost always be made from paraffinic base crude oils. Paraffinic based oils are much better quality and will not "break down" due to oxidation , etc. nearly as quickly as napthenic based oils. If I've got a "leaker", I use the cheap stuff. Otherwise, I go with the good stuff. Hydraulic pumps aren't cheap, so , to me, it is worth the difference.
Just my two cents.

 

[sw03]

Speaking of tractor hydraulic-transmission fluids, the "cheap" brands out there all almost always made from napthenic base crude oils and the premium grade fluids will almost always be made from paraffinic base crude oils. Paraffinic based oils are much better quality and will not "break down" due to oxidation , etc. nearly as quickly as napthenic based oils. If I've got a "leaker", I use the cheap stuff. Otherwise, I go with the good stuff. Hydraulic pumps aren't cheap, so , to me, it is worth the difference.
Just my two cents.

I agree and and the Chinamart oils are wax based. But then again Kubota SUDT is now a Super SUDT...Gee, price is lower too. So Kubota was taking their customers for a ride years ago!

 

[ModMech]

Magnuson-Moss says a manufacturer (Kubota, GM etc) cannot REQUIRE the use of OEM "maintenance items" (lube, plugs, belts etc) to retain the factory warranty.

There are standards, they might be *minimum* standards, but standards none-the-less and as long as the item meets those published standards, you are not doing any HARM by using it.

Manufacturer's "standards" like Mercon(tm), Dexron(tm) etc, are ways for the OEM to collect licensing fees from those that wish to ensure to the retail customer that the item (ATF in this example) meets all the OEM requirements for that item. Kubota, JD, CNH, CAT all have "standards" that have unique identifiers, on occasion you see that OEM standard on a container of oil, which tells you that the oil has been formulated to meet the standard and implies "approval" for that use.

Because each OEM has their own way of administering these standards and they CHARGE the supplier for every quart with the OEM's "ok" on the container, the API and SAE have decided to establish their own "universal" standards. If you read the operator's guide you will see "API" and "SAE" listed, if the lube meets those standards, it will be ok to use, period.

 

[sw03]

Magnuson-Moss says a manufacturer (Kubota, GM etc) cannot REQUIRE the use of OEM "maintenance items" (lube, plugs, belts etc) to retain the factory warranty.

There are standards, they might be *minimum* standards, but standards none-the-less and as long as the item meets those published standards, you are not doing any HARM by using it.

Manufacturer's "standards" like Mercon(tm), Dexron(tm) etc, are ways for the OEM to collect licensing fees from those that wish to ensure to the retail customer that the item (ATF in this example) meets all the OEM requirements for that item. Kubota, JD, CNH, CAT all have "standards" that have unique identifiers, on occasion you see that OEM standard on a container of oil, which tells you that the oil has been formulated to meet the standard and implies "approval" for that use.

Because each OEM has their own way of administering these standards and they CHARGE the supplier for every quart with the OEM's "ok" on the container, the API and SAE have decided to establish their own "universal" standards. If you read the operator's guide you will see "API" and "SAE" listed, if the lube meets those standards, it will be ok to use, period.

I agree and I know a lot of users that are now banned here that brought this up years ago.

Some people like the MM act. Some say it does not work. When I bought a car, higher end, and the dealer said I need to keep receipts on oil changes etc to adhere to warranty. I said that does not prove I install the items. In the end, the dealer will pull a UOA on the fluid and not trust the customer.

To close, that is why I dislike buying OEM fluid since some like Amsoil, Redline etc perform 10X better at < the OEM price.