Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT

/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #1  

hillfarm

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
32
My MF GC2310 - a diesel 23hp sub-compact - is consistently overheating after a short time. I need help trying to track down the cause. Here's what I know so far:

- Overheats within about ten minutes when running belly mower or brush hog. I have not tried extended work without a PTO attachment.
- Hydraulic, oil and coolant fluid levels checked
- Radiator fins are clean of debris
- Fan is running
- Radiator gets hot indicating that pump is circulating coolant.
- To check if temp gauge was faulty, I ran the tractor for about 30 minutes after it lit and coolant was boiling in reservoir and radiator hissing. So gauge seems to be functioning correctly.

My local MF dealer/repair shop is out of business. I haven't found a repair shop nearby and if I do then having it towed will cost >$200. And I'm worried that trying to diagnose the problem may require hours of labor. So this seems like a potentially costly problem.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #3  
Do you see the fluid circulate in the radiator? Does the bottom hose get hot? Radiator cap OK?
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #4  
Sticking thermostat.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #5  
Do you see the fluid circulate in the radiator? Does the bottom hose get hot? Radiator cap OK?

Is the system full of the proper antifreeze/water mix? Is the upper hose pressurized (hard to squeeze). 10 minutes is way too short of a time for any diesel to overheat. I would remove the thermostat and see if the overheat problem goes away. If that option doesn't appeal to you, you can check the thermostat by placing it in a pot of water. Bring the water to a boil and see if the thermostat opens. The thermostat may have the temperature marked on it (180, 185, etc.) which is the opening temp. Having a thermometer in the pot of water (or IR) would help.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #6  
All good advice above.
Double check your "Radiator fins are clean of debris" . Put a water hose on it and see clean water flow through the fins.
Had that problem on my little tractor. With the battery and the transmission cooler blocking parts of the radiator and dirt build up deep in the radiator it got hot.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #7  
All good advice above.
Double check your "Radiator fins are clean of debris" . Put a water hose on it and see clean water flow through the fins.
Had that problem on my little tractor. With the battery and the transmission cooler blocking parts of the radiator and dirt build up deep in the radiator it got hot.

Most communities have a "Mobile Mechanic" service where they come to you. Their primary customers are truckers but they will do other work.

You have not talked about the age and history of your tractor. A leaking head gasket will let high pressure gases from within the cylinder escape into the cooling system thus mimicking the boiling you think you see.

Invest in an Infrared Temp gun so you are certain you are overheating. A 190 degree thermostat makes everything seem too hot but actually things are as they should be. 130 degrees F will seem very hot to the touch.

Amazon.com: Etekcity Lasergrip 1�8� Non-contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun -58℉~1�22℉ (-5�℃~55�℃), Yellow and Black: Kitchen & Dining

Less than $20.


Dave M7040
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #8  
Open up rad cap and take flash light and look in at the tops of the tubes is there build up around openings? Rad may need to be cleaned?
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #9  
I'm not say you do not have a problem. I had a little Massey and it always wanted to run hot in the summer time. I decided that the issue was bad engineering. I started running the tractor with the side panels off from mid may until first of October. That seem to solve my problem. Old farm tractors all generally did not have side panels. But yes, I had a terrible time with my mf overheating especially trying to mow.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #10  
Very uncommon for a GC to over heat never mind in 10 minutes, I suspect the thermostat is stuck..
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #11  
Check the tension on the fan belt, It operates the fan ,water pump, and alternator I believe. It may spin at idle, then slip at higher rpm. The belt may have stretched over the years. But probably the thermostat if you haven't heard any noise from the belt.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #12  
I've seen fins on water pumps completely eaten away, that could be the cause too, no circulation..
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT
  • Thread Starter
#13  
OK. Thank you all for your advice!

v-belt tight ?
Check the tension on the fan belt, It operates the fan ,water pump, and alternator I believe. It may spin at idle, then slip at higher rpm. The belt may have stretched over the years. But probably the thermostat if you haven't heard any noise from the belt.

The belts seems tight. Although I don't know how to check them when under load.??

Do you see the fluid circulate in the radiator? Does the bottom hose get hot? Radiator cap OK?
No, I can't see the fluid circulate. How would I do that? The bottom hose gets hot, yes.
What are you suggesting I check with the radiator cap?


Is the system full of the proper antifreeze/water mix? Is the upper hose pressurized (hard to squeeze). 10 minutes is way too short of a time for any diesel to overheat. I would remove the thermostat and see if the overheat problem goes away. If that option doesn't appeal to you, you can check the thermostat by placing it in a pot of water. Bring the water to a boil and see if the thermostat opens. The thermostat may have the temperature marked on it (180, 185, etc.) which is the opening temp. Having a thermometer in the pot of water (or IR) would help.

Yes, I've got full coolant. Both top and bottom hoses seem to increase pressure a little when running, but they both feel about the same, and both easily give when squeezed. Is that a problem?

Removing the thermostat seems like it would be hard to do. Won't I have to carefully drain all the coolant? I think I'd need a service manual to make sure I got it right.

Open up rad cap and take flash light and look in at the tops of the tubes is there build up around openings? Rad may need to be cleaned?
I can't see anything from the radiator cap. It looks like I could disassemble the top of the radiator to reveal the tubes, but I'm not sure.

I've seen fins on water pumps completely eaten away, that could be the cause too, no circulation..
I'm totally lost on this suggestion. But if the radiator and hoses are heating up, doesn't that mean that I'm getting circulation?

All good advice above.
Double check your "Radiator fins are clean of debris" . Put a water hose on it and see clean water flow through the fins.
Had that problem on my little tractor. With the battery and the transmission cooler blocking parts of the radiator and dirt build up deep in the radiator it got hot.

Good call. Recheck the simple. The radiator has a removable filter in front of the fins that I had checked and cleaned, but the actual fins were hard to see because the battery blocks access. I removed the battery and found a fine mesh of dirt on much of the fins. I removed the debris and hosed it down.

Most communities have a "Mobile Mechanic" service where they come to you. Their primary customers are truckers but they will do other work.

You have not talked about the age and history of your tractor. A leaking head gasket will let high pressure gases from within the cylinder escape into the cooling system thus mimicking the boiling you think you see.

Invest in an Infrared Temp gun so you are certain you are overheating. A 190 degree thermostat makes everything seem too hot but actually things are as they should be. 130 degrees F will seem very hot to the touch.

Amazon.com: Etekcity Lasergrip 1�8� Non-contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun -58℉~1�22℉ (-5�℃~55�℃), Yellow and Black: Kitchen & Dining

Less than $20.

Never heard of a mobile mechanic around here (rural western Massachusetts). That would be sweet.
My tractor is 10 years old with 540 hours. I probably stress it more than the usual SCUT owner. E.g. I have a 60" brush hog that I regularly use and years ago I remember someone speculating that the large mower was stressful on the SCUT's PTO. And I use a rototiller, too, that works hard. It's definitely possible that there could be cracks. But I don't know how to tell.

If the problem persists after cleaning the rad fins, I'll get a thermometer to check for overheating. If it is overheating, then I'll tackle the thermostat removal/replacement.

Thanks all for many very helpful suggestions. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #14  
The belts seems tight. Although I don't know how to check them when under load.??

I finally had to tighten mine up for the first time. The belt started squealing at high rpm. From the picture you can see how much it moved when tightened up. Adjustment is by a single bolt (12mm head) on the alternator bracket. The belt should deflect almost the thickness of the belt when depressed. If it is loose, it is very noticeable. The belt operates the cooling fan and the water pump, and seemed to be slipping on the driveshaft pulley. Slippage was at high rpm, just open up the hood and take a look/listen with the throttle wide open.
V belt.JPG
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #15  
OK. Thank you all for your advice!




The belts seems tight. Although I don't know how to check them when under load.??


No, I can't see the fluid circulate. How would I do that? The bottom hose gets hot, yes.
What are you suggesting I check with the radiator cap?




Yes, I've got full coolant. Both top and bottom hoses seem to increase pressure a little when running, but they both feel about the same, and both easily give when squeezed. Is that a problem?

Removing the thermostat seems like it would be hard to do. Won't I have to carefully drain all the coolant? I think I'd need a service manual to make sure I got it right.


I can't see anything from the radiator cap. It looks like I could disassemble the top of the radiator to reveal the tubes, but I'm not sure.


I'm totally lost on this suggestion. But if the radiator and hoses are heating up, doesn't that mean that I'm getting circulation?



Good call. Recheck the simple. The radiator has a removable filter in front of the fins that I had checked and cleaned, but the actual fins were hard to see because the battery blocks access. I removed the battery and found a fine mesh of dirt on much of the fins. I removed the debris and hosed it down.



Never heard of a mobile mechanic around here (rural western Massachusetts). That would be sweet.
My tractor is 10 years old with 540 hours. I probably stress it more than the usual SCUT owner. E.g. I have a 60" brush hog that I regularly use and years ago I remember someone speculating that the large mower was stressful on the SCUT's PTO. And I use a rototiller, too, that works hard. It's definitely possible that there could be cracks. But I don't know how to tell.

If the problem persists after cleaning the rad fins, I'll get a thermometer to check for overheating. If it is overheating, then I'll tackle the thermostat removal/replacement.

Thanks all for many very helpful suggestions. I'll let you know how it turns out.


When you remove the radiator cap, you should see the radiator full.
If the fluid is not moving then raise the rpm. The fluid should move a lot. Some times it will over flow but most times the level will drop some.
If there is no movement it usually means the water pump is not pumping. Depending on the design, the amount of movement will vary when the thermostat opens up.

The radiator cap you were told to check...It should be rated at 12 to 18 psi or so. If it is weak it will not allow pressure to build in the cooling system. Water boils at 212 degrees f. Higher pressure makes the boiling point higher so the water can get up to 220 to 260 degrees before it boils over and you lose the water to over flow.

Hoses get soft before they fail. Firm hoses is a good thing.

Generally changing a thermostat is easy and draining the coolant is not necessary. Make sure the gasket area is dry when you put it back on with new gasket and sealer.

The radiator and hoses getting hot means the engine is getting hot. Water transfers heat very well. You might be getting circulation but not enough due to poor water pump, loose fan belt, or thermostat not opening up enough.
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Thanks for the extra information. The belt on my tractor gives a little, but seems sufficiently tight given the teeth on the underside and I saw no slippage at high rpm.

I finally had to tighten mine up for the first time. The belt started squealing at high rpm. From the picture you can see how much it moved when tightened up. Adjustment is by a single bolt (12mm head) on the alternator bracket. The belt should deflect almost the thickness of the belt when depressed. If it is loose, it is very noticeable. The belt operates the cooling fan and the water pump, and seemed to be slipping on the driveshaft pulley. Slippage was at high rpm, just open up the hood and take a look/listen with the throttle wide open.
View attachment 562630
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #17  
Thanks for the extra information. The belt on my tractor gives a little, but seems sufficiently tight given the teeth on the underside and I saw no slippage at high rpm.
never open the radiator cap on a hot engine, the scalding can kill you, when the engine is cold remove the radiator cap, and when it gets hot, the water has to move when the thermostat opens...
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT
  • Thread Starter
#18  
When you remove the radiator cap, you should see the radiator full.
If the fluid is not moving then raise the rpm. The fluid should move a lot. Some times it will over flow but most times the level will drop some.
If there is no movement it usually means the water pump is not pumping. Depending on the design, the amount of movement will vary when the thermostat opens up.

Well, I opened the cap and started it up. Fluid was up to the top. After start it spilled and the level did not drop. As I raised the throttle, it made more of a mess with lots of little splashes, but I attribute that to the increased vibrations. For comparison I opened up the radiator on my car and I saw: fluid to top, when I started it there was clearly no movement of fluid except it slowly rose over a minute and began to spill out.

I think I need to ask a friend with some basic experience. Wish I had taken auto mechanics in high school!
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT
  • Thread Starter
#19  
never open the radiator cap on a hot engine, the scalding can kill you, when the engine is cold remove the radiator cap, and when it gets hot, the water has to move when the thermostat opens...

OK. So I should put a drip pan underneath and keep it running for, what?, 5 or 10 minutes until the thermostat opens?
 
/ Help diagnose overheating MF SCUT #20  
OK. So I should put a drip pan underneath and keep it running for, what?, 5 or 10 minutes until the thermostat opens?
that's the safe way, and the only way to tell if the water is REALLY circulating. by looking at it..
 

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