Deere 5105 overheating

[ericm979]

The Deere 5105 I bought with a piece of property is overheating. The only sign is the gauge, which when I work the tractor heads into the red within 5 minutes or so. It's not steaming out the radiator overflow. There's no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. I replaced the thermostat but the symptoms continue. When I run the engine at idle from cold and let it warm up, the top of the radiator where the hot water enters gets warm but the rest of the radiator stays cold. When I squeeze the upper hose from the thermostat to the radiator I can't feel any water moving. Looking in the radiator opening I don't see water moving. If the cause was the radiator being partially clogged I think I'd see water moving in it. What l can see of the radiator looks pretty clean inside.

I think all this means that the pump isn't pumping. Does my analysis sound correct? The fan belt's tight.

Also the pump looks to be $450 or so from Deere though there are cheaper aftermarket options. The rebuild kit is $80. I have not rebuilt a pump like this. Does it require a shop press to get the old shaft out and new shaft in? I have limited tools at this property.

 

[ssgp2]

Sounds like the pump to me, but first clean the radiator REAL good. you should be able to get clear water through the radiator coil. Don't use the stream on the spray nozzle, so you don't bend the fins. Personally, I use SimpleGreean and a wand with rating head with a flat spray.

 

[ericm979]

All I had was an air compressor, so I blew out the radiator fins with that. I got a lot of dirt out. But I think if the problem was only that the external fins were clogged the whole radiator would get warm, and also when run for a while it would start blowing coolant out the overflow hose.

 

[rScotty]

Could be something up with the engine computer that runs the gauge.

When my JD started showing overheating on the gauge but no other symptoms I was stumped. I replaced the thermostat, sender, fluid, checked everything and it still showed overheating on the gauge - but no other signs of overheating. The engine felt and smelt right. I couldn't feel heat in the hoses, and a mechanical guage I taped to the coolant return line showed that the temperature was normal.

So I talked with the JD service tech who said that was a common fault. He had seen it so much they kept the parts to fix it on hand. Said it indicated a problem with the multi-wire plug to the engine computer and sometimes the computer itself.

He was right. BTW, it requires JD to program the computer. You cannot do it yourself.

 

[ericm979]

I think this 2005 model doesn't have a computer. But the problem could be in the gauge. I have seen a few threads here from people with 5105s who have had the gauge in the cluster go bad. But those usually have the gauge not resting on the pin when cold, or pinning the needle immediately when the ignition goes on. My gauge mostly acts normal except it goes to hot too easily.

 

[Quebecguy]

For how long are you running the motor? On my 5205 the temperature gauge needle goes up almost into the "red zone" when the motor is warming up but then drops back down a bit once operating temperature is reached, presumably when the thermostat opens.

 

[rScotty]

I think this 2005 model doesn't have a computer. But the problem could be in the gauge. I have seen a few threads here from people with 5105s who have had the gauge in the cluster go bad. But those usually have the gauge not resting on the pin when cold, or pinning the needle immediately when the ignition goes on. My gauge mostly acts normal except it goes to hot too easily.

Still worth checking. Mine is a commercial model 310 from 2006 and the changeover for those was in 2001. What it has is a pretty primitive engine computer since the motor is still individual injector type. This was before common rail injection & real computers yet.

For a few months mine would crawl up to operating temp like usual, but then continue on up to hot and finally to full hot.....just as though it really was not cooling properly. And the gauge looks just exactly like an old style analog needle gauge from the previous era, even though on this one it is actually the computer which is moving the needle in digital steps.

It may be worth a quick check to see if your 2005 model 5105 has an "John Deere RE522515 (or similar part #) Engine Control Module" also called an ECM. I'm curious too. I almost bought that same tractor.
luck, rScotty

 

[loggin]

I think this 2005 model doesn't have a computer. But the problem could be in the gauge. I have seen a few threads here from people with 5105s who have had the gauge in the cluster go bad. But those usually have the gauge not resting on the pin when cold, or pinning the needle immediately when the ignition goes on. My gauge mostly acts normal except it goes to hot too easily.

Might be worthwhile to check the temperature with a digital thermometer at different points on the engine, radiator, water pump and thermostat just to see if there are big temperature differences. Also to see what the temperatures are at. I know this isn't completely conclusive but might give some insight as to what is going on. The machine might not be overheating at all.

Though not seeing even the slightest bit of water flow or turbulence at the radiator cap opening seems to indicate the water pump.

Just a thought.

 

[ericm979]

For how long are you running the motor? On my 5205 the temperature gauge needle goes up almost into the "red zone" when the motor is warming up but then drops back down a bit once operating temperature is reached, presumably when the thermostat opens.

Hmm that's interesting.

I ran it for about 20 minutes cutting grass, then parked it for a few hours while removing irrigation pipe and fence wire from a field with 3' high grass, then fired it up again. I got maybe 10 minutes more grass cutting before I looked at the gauge and it was pinned in the red. I drove it back to the shed and parked it. It was a pretty hot day.

After that I cleaned out the radiator external fins, replaced the thermostat and cleaned the air filter.

Since then I've tried cutting grass and the temp climbs into the red in about 10 minutes. If I let it idle it goes down some but goes back into the red when I rev it up to move it or mow. Mowing pins the gauge if I run it enough.

 

[Quebecguy]

Is the radiator hot after 20 minutes of run time? If it is not, then I would suspect a water pump problem.

 

[dodge man]

I’d make sure it’s not the gauge or the sending unit. Make sure a hose isn’t collapsing on you also.

 

[ssgp2]

Is the radiator hot after 20 minutes of run time? If it is not, then I would suspect a water pump problem.

Yep. That's what I said too.

 

[ericm979]

I went there this week and removed the radiator and water pump. The bearings seem good. As far as I can tell from looking and feeling in the pump ports the impeller's there and turns with the shaft.

I drained the radiator using the valve near the bottom and there was some fluid left inside. When I dumped it out of the lower hose there wasn't that much so I think it was just what was left below the level of the valve.

I'm kind of stumped. It acts like the pump's not pumping but the pump does not have visible flaws. I read about cavitation and maybe the impeller's been worn away by cavitation. The pics I see of the impeller in the rebuild kit have larger and squarer looking vanes than what I see and feel in mine. But that seems kind of far fetched.

At this point I'm tempted to fire the parts cannon and replace the radiator, pump, gauge sender and hoses. I'd like this tractor to be running. Having it be 400 miles away from home is a pain. I have a place to work on it but I have to bring all the tools up each time.

 

[Texasmark]

If you squeeze the lower hose and don't feel water, there must not be any.......the lower radiator hose is the lowest point in the system.........

Assuming that's a measurement error, take the thermostat out and bring up the radiator water level until the top of the tubes are covered half an inch. Run the tractor at mid RPM and look for swirling water from the fill opening. If so, put the cap back on and go out and work the tractor and get back with the results.

Check your fan belt tension......you shouldn't be able to move the fan with your hand on the blade if the alternator/water pump/crankshaft belt is of the proper tension. A loose belt can cause heating problems.

 

[SirMaxwell]

fyi - 1505 Diesel Running Hot(er)

 

[sabomagqabi]

The Deere 5105 I bought with a piece of property is overheating. The only sign is the gauge, which when I work the tractor heads into the red within 5 minutes or so. It's not steaming out the radiator overflow. There's no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. I replaced the thermostat but the symptoms continue. When I run the engine at idle from cold and let it warm up, the top of the radiator where the hot water enters gets warm but the rest of the radiator stays cold. When I squeeze the upper hose from the thermostat to the radiator I can't feel any water moving. Looking in the radiator opening I don't see water moving. If the cause was the radiator being partially clogged I think I'd see water moving in it. What l can see of the radiator looks pretty clean inside.

I think all this means that the pump isn't pumping. Does my analysis sound correct? The fan belt's tight.

Also the pump looks to be $450 or so from Deere though there are cheaper aftermarket options. The rebuild kit is $80. I have not rebuilt a pump like this. Does it require a shop press to get the old shaft out and new shaft in? I have limited tools at this property.

U can't repair water pump option is buy new one

 

[JD5210]

Maybe I missed someone suggesting this, but have you checked the thermostat? I have read the jiggle pin sometimes has problems and the thermostat does not work correctly.

I have a 5210 and I believe we have the same engine. I have included the pages on how to replace the thermostat from the 521X tech manuals. I did mine some time ago, the bypass tube just pulls out from cover. Hope this helps. I also switched over to Cool-Guard II at this time.

 

[ericm979]

U can't repair water pump option is buy new one

There's a kit that consists of the bearing, seal and impeller. But to replace them you need a shop press which I don't have at this location.


I replaced the pump, radiator and some of the hoses. It was still indicating in the red but the bottom of the radiator was cool while the top was hot, and it didn't show any signs of overheating, so I ran it for about three hours mowing. I'd tightened the belt as much as I can, and sprayed belt dressing on it. Before I did that I could turn the fan by hand so I think the belt was slipping then but didn't check after tightening the adjustment and applying dressing. It looks like it's the original belt from 2005, 2000 hours ago.

As I was mowing the temp gauge went up and down, and after a few hours stayed out of the red longer and longer. Each time I went into the wind it would go into the red and when I went with the wind I'd feel a lot of heat from the radiator but the gauge would go back down. By the time I quit it was only in the red on the into the wind leg.

I wonder if the belt was slipping more when it was getting cool air and less when it was hot? In any case I have a belt on order and will swap it out next time. I'd planned on replacing it when I replaced the pump but forgot.

 

[ericm979]

Does anyone know about the engine heat reduction kit pn ST1082488?

It looks like an alternate water pump (high flow?), smaller water pump pulley and shorter belt. I'm going to try the new belt first of course. I'm just wondering since I spotted it on the parts site.