Help! Enzymatic Treatment Needed to Clear Septic Drain Field?

[ritmatt]

I need some quick information, please. The corrugated drain pipe that attaches my septic tank drain to the drain field has apparently come apart, so I have a septic cleaning company here to fix the problem. They are recommending pumping the drain field then treating it with an enzymatic cleaner, replacing the white pipe from the septic tank to the corrugated pipe, reattaching the connection point, and putting the dirt back for $1500.

My questions are twofold:

1. Do I need the enzymatic cleaner or is this just something they're trying to sell because it's profitable?

2. Is $1500 a reasonable price to pay?

Any quick answers are most appreciated. Thanks!

 

[themichelob]

ritmatt--Not an expert, by any means. Having said that, if they are digging up your entire drain field (2-3 guys plus a backhoe for 6-8 hours) and all the connecting plumbing from your septic then I don't think $1500.00 sounds like a lot. I don't know how much you would save by passing on the enzymes, but I would say do it. You don't mention how old your system is, but I probably put $100.00 worth of bacterial and enzyme treatment in my system yearly (I do it in spring and fall). Maybe a more knowledgeable person will chime in....Regards, Mike

 

[ritmatt]

Thanks, Mike. They're not digging up the whole drain field, just the first 10 feet or so from the septic tank to where the corrugated pipe starts.

Interesting regarding the $100 worth of enzyme treatment. These guys claim that they usually charge $1500 just for that part of the job.

Regardless, I'm moving forward with the job as quoted. I don't think it will hurt anything, and I don't want to wait another week to get three more quotes. I will take my lumps now.

Thanks again.

 

[Pilot]

From what I have read, don't waste your money on enzymes. It's all hype. There are billions of bacteria naturally in your system and what they add is a small fraction of what's already there. Here's a more authoritative source: http://clark.wsu.edu/horticulture/smallAcreageProgram/septic-additives.pdf

One thing you can do is to avoid use of antibacterial soap--it tends to kill off the bacteria that's needed for your system to work properly. Once you stop using the antibacterial soap, the bacteria will build up fairly quickly.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

If your lines are laid in sandy soil, you might check and make sure that the laterals are not choked with fine sand. That was my problem. Enzymes won't help sand. I managed to keep mine clean by digging down to the end of the lateral and flushing them out with a garden hose. Eventually hooked up to a city sewer that went across the back of my property.

 

[caps]

The bacteria/enzymes are not neccessary unless you use a lot of chlorine in your wash or antibacterial soaps or detergents. There is sufficient bacteria in the soil and, if you think about it, every time you flush the toilet you are injecting new bacteria into your system. My next door neighbor (this was about 40 years ago) had a PHD in microbacteria and did some research with injecting different types of bacteria/enzymes in his and several of our neighbors septic systems. He found little or no benefit to any of the commercial additives. Best recommendation is to pump your septic system tank periodically and keep vegatation out of the drain field. Two people - normal soil - average use - 5 or six years. More often if you have a garbage disposal or use lots of chlorine or disinfectants. Also try to avoid compacting the soil over your drain field - don't drive your tractor over it.

 

[ritmatt]

TBN friends,

Thanks for your responses both here and via PM. I thought I'd post this follow up message to let you know what happened. Also, this information might possibly help somebody else that may find this thread down the road. I'll cover at least three points:

1. Clarification: The recommended chemical treatment was an "oxidizer" not an "enzymatic" treatment (sorry - I used the wrong word).
2. I think I overpaid.
3. I doubt the solution I paid for is a long-term fix.

Before I get started, let me share a little background information. I bought and moved into this house just a few months ago. It was built in 1985. The house changed hands at least 3 times before I bought it, but I have substantial evidence that a lot of work was put into the house over the past 3 or 4 years. It has been well-maintained and is generally in excellent condition. The last seller disclosed that he had roots cleared away from the septic system within the past 2 years. He says he had it inspected at that time and that it was given a clean bill of health. I bought the house with a seller-paid home warranty that includes optional coverage for the septic tank and the septic "system". Also, full disclosure, I've never owned a house with a septic system before, so this is all new to me.

I first noticed a damp spot on the ground in front of the house 5 days ago, the day before Thanksgiving. It looked as if someone had dumped a few gallons of water on the ground a couple hours before I got there and I didn't think much of it. (At the time, I still thought the septic tank was located in the back yard, because my realtor had pointed out the spot where he thought it was located several months ago. It turns out that he was wrong.) On Thanksgiving day, I noticed standing water in the same spot. I dug up a few shovel-fulls of mud and found the ground very soft. There was no odor and there were no symptoms inside the house, but I knew I had a problem with either the water supply line or the septic system - probably the latter. Being Thanksgiving day with family in town and believing that the home warranty company and/or septic company probably weren't available on a holiday, I waited until Friday morning to make the call for a warranty repair.

It turns out that the septic company was having problems of their own. The dump stations they normally used to empty their trucks were reportedly closed for the long holiday weekend. It took them until Friday night to find a place to empty their trucks, and they didn't make it to my place until early Saturday afternoon (yesterday). By that time, I had discovered that my county keeps online records for all the septic systems in the area, and I was able to download the original sketch of my property showing the septic tank and drain field were definitely located in the front yard, very near the site of the seepage. Thankfully, all our company had left the day before and there were still no problems or symptoms inside the house. However, there was a noticeable sewage odor at the front of the house by Saturday morning. I knew it was only a matter of time before I had a backup inside the house.

The septic company located the tank by poking a long metal rod into the ground over and over until they found the concrete top. The top of the tank was only about 12-18 inches deep, and it was located about 8-10 feet from the site of the seepage, almost directly towards the house. They used a small backhoe to scrape away the earth and uncover the access port to the tank, which was about 2 feet square. They used a shovel to pry open the lid and, as expected, they found the 1000 gallon tank completely full. Incidentally, while it definitely smelled bad, the odor wasn't nearly as potent I expected. One small thing to be thankful for, I guess. Moving on, they pumped the tank about half way down to expose a 4 or 5 inch diameter plumbing "tee" made of ordinary-looking white plastic or poly. The tee was mounted diagonally and extended "high" and "low" about the same length of maybe 5 or 6 inches. The septic crew said that the tee was supposed to be mounted vertically and that the bottom should extend further than the top. I did my own research online later and that information seems accurate.

The crew continued to scrape away the earth towards the site of the seepage, following the white pipe which extends from the middle part of the tee through the side of the septic tank and away from the house towards the drain field. They were careful not to puncture or damage the pipe in the process. Finally, about 8 or 10 feet out, they found the spot where the white rigid pipe had apparently become detached from the black corrugated plastic pipe used in the drain field. They said this was the source of the problem. They went on to explain that mud had entered the drain field at the separation point, clogging the drain field and causing it to become completely full. They said the solution was to pump out the contents of the drain field, then to use an "oxidizer" chemical treatment to break up any remaining blockages, and to replace the white plastic tee and the white pipe that extended out to the black corrugated pipe.

Unfortunately, it turns out that the home warranty coverage applies only to the septic tank itself, a single instance of pumping, and anything that connects the septic system to the house. They do not cover the drain field or anything "below" the septic tank. While talking with the home warranty company, they told me that the septic company quoted them $1999 to fix the clogged drain field issue. Afterwards, the septic crew quoted me $1800. They claimed that the chemical "oxidizer" treatment was critical to the process and that it was also the most expensive part. That's when I came inside and posted my original post on TBN. I also did some very quick online searching and couldn't find any helpful information within five minutes or so.

So, I found myself in a predicament. It took me a day and a half on a holiday weekend to get somebody out to the house. At this point, the septic tank was disconnected from the drain field, so I basically couldn't use the plumbing in my house. The septic crew was apparently reputable enough to be used by the warranty company, so should I take them at their word and get me back up and running right away, or should I send them packing so I could call around looking for quotes and other opinions? I worried I might be without plumbing for a week and may still end up spending a couple thousand dollars or more. So, I tried to make the best decision possible with the information I had at the time. I offered them $1500 to proceed (quick math in my head was 3 guys at $75 per hour for 3.5 hours [my guess] ~ $800, plus $100 for pipe and an unknown amount for chemicals, plus the use of their backhoe, pump truck, and other tools = a total of around $1500, maybe). After an appropriate amount of grumbling, they accepted my offer and continued working.

Here are a couple pictures I took after the white pipe was replaced. I took them mostly so I could remember where the tank was located. The tree roots you see in the photos had already been cut when we got there - they were clearly left over from the work the previous owner had done and they were not interfering with anything when we uncovered them.
View attachment 290309

Here's a better picture of the access portal for the septic tank.
View attachment 290310

Did I get taken for a ride? Only time will tell for sure. But, I have a strong suspicion that I'll be dealing with drain field issues again much sooner than I'd like. I also think I overpaid for what I received. Here's why:

* I couldn't find any reputable source anywhere that suggests that chemical treatments are good for septic systems. In fact, quite the opposite. The only people that seem to think chemical treatments are a good idea are plumbers and chemical manufacturers.
* The septic company used powdered chemicals from just two 1-gallon containers to treat my drain field. I had walked inside for a minute before they started, so I can't even be sure the first container was full. Regardless, I don't see how 2 gallons of anything could possibly make a difference in ~300-400 feet of 5" corrugated drain line, especially when delivered with a 10-minute douse of water from a garden hose.
* I saw the label on the chemical containers. It was Oxidizer Plus by Rooter Plus. An Internet search shows that's a local company (but not the exact name of the company servicing my system). I couldn't find any reviews for the chemical online, but there are hundreds or even thousands of articles about drain field problems. Seems like there would be a lot more information available if the chemicals were widely distributed or generally recognized as effective.
* I found one document that contends that hydrogen peroxide actually degrades drain fields. I don't know anything about the chemical composition of "Oxidizer Plus", but it foamed up like a hydrogen peroxide and baking soda mix when it was dropped into the corrugated pipe. Also, the common "oxide" part of the name makes me think it's probably very similar stuff.
* Responses here on TBN and Internet searches indicate that septic tank cleaning services typically run in the $200-300 range. Paying 5-7 times that for maybe 3 or 4 times the work seems possibly excessive.
* I found several articles and documents from reputable sources that indicate that ground weeping, seepage, or pooling around a drain field are almost sure signs that the drain field has failed and will need to be repaired or replaced. Here's one of the more thorough documents I found.
* Most sources seem to indicate that the lifespan of a good drain field is 20 to 30 years. Assuming that mine is original to the house (an idea supported by county records), it is approximately 27 years old today. All indications are that it's probably at or near the end of its useful life.

I'll try to remember to come back here to post updates if anything changes. In the meantime, thanks for reading this incredibly long post and, for those of you that provided comments and suggestions, a big THANK YOU for your help!

Matt

 

[savageactor7]

Acting on the advice from the guy that cleans our tank we've use Ridex for many many years...it's a real easy clean so it works.

 

[dave1949]

Well, by local price standards, $1500 to have three guys, equipment, pumper tank, some digging and plastic pipe fixed on a weekend isn't a horrible price. It can cost a lot of money to have and keep equipment, plus they have to make a living on top of that.

I can't speak to the usefulness of the oxidizer, but it seems like what they did, and told you about the tee and so forth, sounds correct. It isn't their fault your drain field is old and may need replaced. If they had said the whole thing needed to be replaced and quoted you a price to replace it, what would you have thought about their motives?

Like you say, a failed septic system doesn't allow much time for investigation of alternatives. About all you can do is call your local porta-potty place and start using the laundromat, avoiding that is worth a couple hundred anyways :laughing:

 

[ritmatt]

Like you say, a failed septic system doesn't allow much time for investigation of alternatives. About all you can do is call your local porta-potty place and start using the laundromat, avoiding that is worth a couple hundred anyways :laughing:

True, that!

 

[2LaneCruzer]

If you got the break repaired and THE DRAINFIELD PUMPED, you probably didn't get taken too badly. If your system works now, count your blessings. I had my system hooked up the the city sewer system, and it cost me $1500. They dug a ditch with a backhoe about 30' long and about 15' deep at one point, laid a line, attached it and covered it up. Took best part of a day.

 

[John White]

I cant argue on what some one else charges. Uncovering your septic and pumping it, $200 is somewhere in the ball park. I am a licensed septic pumper. I advise my customers constantally that their septic system might be one of their most valuable assets. Unfortunally most people think that out of sight, out of mind. And that is the last thing most people think about. But when the toilet quits flushing their would comes to a end. A broken furnace or AC we sort of can cope with it till we can get if fixed but when the toilet quits flushing, well you dont have any options. I notice that most septic tanks I open now days have no bacteria action. And I feel that putting anything in your tank is a waste of money. Many will agree with me and those selling it disagree. Most of the things we use in our home today kill the bacteria. Mouth wash, counter top cleaners, toilet bowel cleaners, drain cleaners, many medications, bleach, etc. I tell my customers instead of pouring $10 or $15 worth of chemicals every month down the toilet, just put that much in a cookie jar and have it pumped as needed. Which can range from once a year to every three years. Depending on how many people live in your house, water usage, septic size and leach field. Another thing most people dont know that years ago most of our clothing was made out of cotton. When washed these fine threads went into out septic tank and would deteroiate. Now days we have most clothes made out of nylon, rayon and other synthetic fabrics and bactiera can't and wont eat these and alot of them will float to the top and out into the leach field. As far putting something in your leach tile and telling you it will clean it out. Ask them if they will give you your money back if it doesnt work. You will find out real quick how confident they think it will work. I use to do alot of repairs (72 now, so I just pump) and it was not uncommon to have to dig up the first 10' of pipe comming out of the tank due of sloppy installiation, sometimes they dig too deep right where it comes out of the tank and after 5 or 10 years is will bow or break off. I have seen some people have sucess in calling some who does "water jetting", in unplugging deain fields. Usually chemicals is just a waste to time . Since they had your pipe dug up, they should or could have run a camera down the pipe 50' or 100' and inspected it and give you a accurate diagonisos. I am helping a customer right now who has a aeriator and they did not have it serviced properly and is has plugged the line going to the leach field up. Probably if it was simply dug up the first 50 or 100 ft and cleaned out, regraveled it might be ok but the health dept is involved now and they want her to install a $20k system. Right now all she can afford is to let me pump it every two weeks, which the health dept agreed to. Keep us posted to what happens.

 

[edlegault]

"They used a shovel to pry open the lid and, as expected, they found the 1000 gallon tank completely full."

If the tank was full of liquid, then the problem may well have been dirt/mud getting into and clogging the drainfield. If the tank was full of solids/muck, then the drainfield has probably been filled with the same solids/muck and will soon fail again (and need to be replaced with a new drainfield).

Every septic tank should be pumped every 2-5 years, depending on size and usage. Once the septic tank is full of solids/muck the drainfield gets ruined quickly. (only liquids should flow out into the field after the solids have settled out.)

 

[MossRoad]

We have our septic system pumped every two years.... two small tanks and one 1200 dry well. It usually runs about $300. We do this because the system is small by today's standards and also 40 years old. It amounts to about $12.00 per month. Once it is pumped and washed out, we just use it as normal. The septic guy tells us to eat a big Mexican dinner with plenty O beans and let nature take its course! No additives needed... ever.
:laughing:

 

[rambler]

> They went on to explain that mud had entered the drain field at the separation point, clogging the drain field and causing it to become completely full.

If they really meant 'mud' then no chemical will help, your drainfield is plugged up.

If they/you mean 'the solids from the septic system' then the chemicals are doubtful they will help any. Could maybe.

The whole thing smells bad, tho.

Your tank should always be about full - the top will have a little scum/grease on it, the bottom will have a little solids, and the middle will be dirty water, kust below the grease-scum layer the water is pretty good and clear. You are in a little trouble if the top grease ball gets too big; and you are for sure in a lot of trouble if the bottom solids build up high enough for solids to flow out into the leach line - then these solids flow out and seal up the porus ground in your leach field and it's a goner. Many of those solids are not disolvable, and no amount of chemical will do anything about them.

That Tee pipe keeps the grease on top and out of the leach line, grease in the line will seal up the porus ground around your leach lines, as well as the holes in the pipes. _Perhaps_ the chemicals they added broke up this grease, if any grease got into your leach line....

But!

You said a pipe was broken, you said the wet spot showed up at the break, _not_ out in the leach field, and there was no mention that your septic tank was overloaded with solids.

So I'm thinking you had a rather easy to fix broken pipe, and nothing else was actually wrong, everything would work fine without the chemicals, the whole problem was just that spot where the pipe broke?

Sounds like they did a nice $500 repair and made some money off a person with little choice in the matter, but if your system is well repaired, you got something out of it and just have to move on.

--->Paul

 

[Dale Binkley]

The most common mistake that septic system owners make is doing too many loads of laundry back to back. Too much through put of waste water through the septic tank into the drain field in a short amount of time tends to wash solids into the drain field - which clogs it over time. It is sometimes difficult to not wash 2 or 3 or 4 loads of laundry back to back (in one day). Spacing out laundry washing to a load a day or AT LEAST doing one load in the morning and one in the evening is the easiset way to spread out how much waste water you are pushing through the septic system.

 

[tnmike]

That price sound high to me. You can get a whole new system installed in rural east tennessee for 2500 bucks.

 

[BleedingOrange]

Hey tnmike, what type of system ? Any links ?

 

[sdkubota]

I think they got the gold mine and you got the shaft...oxidizer????

Never make decisions when under pressure. You could have had your tank pumped and would probably have another week to investigate. Bacteria are present naturally in wastewater and in a septic system are primarily anerobic meaning absense of oxygen. If they really did add an oxidizer it may have done more harm than good by killing off your anerobic bacteria but I am merely speculating.

 

[MossRoad]

cheap sytem