Help, I am about to by a Kubota!

[radar54]

Hoosier, Got a fellow Hoosier here. I don't know where in IN you live, myself in Evansville, but there is a dealer in Owensboro, KY that you should really talk to before you buy, O'Bryans. They may not be convenient for you, say if you live in Gary. But check out his website then give them a call, talk to John Lampkin.

www.kioti.com
Myself, I have the LK3054, I have 140 acres of Kentucky hill farm that I maintain and this little tractor is a workhorse. I don't think you will regret buying the Kioti.

Jeff

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Thanks for the tip about O'Bryans. I have been to their website (how can anyone miss it at www.kioti.com), and they seem to have good packages. I have a dealer that is 3 miles from my new home (in Knightstown, btw) so I'll give him a go first. It sure would be nice to have someone that close for warranty repairs and maintenance.

Have fun on your Kentucky farm!

 

[Alan L.]

The Kubotas are taking some flack here in the Kioti section - comments about "$5,000 for a name", etc. Before you choose I recommend that you do two things:

(1) Don't take anybody's word for it. Drive the Kubota. I'll bet you don't find any negatives.

(2) Consider whether or not the Kubota really costs $5000 more. Its not fair to compare a gear tractor to an HST tractor and attribute the difference to brand. Also, consider that whatever difference there is in price will be returned in resale, most likely.

 

[RanchMan]

FLACK????

You're kidding Alan, right? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

After all the junk that gets posted on the other forums from Kubota owners about "that 'other' orange" when they have never even SEEN a Kioti, much less driven or used one???? /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif There are FAR more infamous threads where some non-Kioti person started stirring up trouble with the Kioti or other "off-brand" guys. (Shall I point out the whole "worth the risk?" series???) Yes, we all know you have a Kubota, and we're very happy for you...

What's been posted here could HARDLY be called flack - just some Kioti guys saying how much they like their machines and that there is a price difference (and yes, Alan, there IS a considerable price difference - don't pretend there isn't) FLACK???? Give me a break! /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif


Hoosier -

I had a long reply to your message, but I decided to kill it and make a few quick points instead. (well, quick compared to how I write most of the time. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

1) As someone who doesn't own an orange tractor, but almost bought one, I have to concur with the other Kioti guys. I had no preconceived biases when I started my search for a tractor, so I consider myself pretty objective. Kiotis appear to be a very well built, strong, and big "bang for the buck" machines.

2) Yes, Kubotas probably command a higher resale price (haven't done any real research in to this) but if you dump more money in at the front, you'd only expect to get more out at the back, right? So I fail to see the big advantage to the whole resale argument especially when you consider the whole TVM calculation. 'Course I look as tractors as a multi-decade investment anyway, not like your average "lease" car - I'm not out to impress the neighbors with a name or the "new model year" - but that's just me.

3) Like Alan says, don't take my word for it, go price 'em & compare the features yourself. Try to get the "best deal" on a comparable Kubota and compare it to the "best deal" the Kioti folks will give. I think the Kioti folks will be vindicated on what they've been saying.

4) If hydro is something important to you, then Kioti currently is not the brand for you. (they will have HST in 2003 some time). The whole + & - thing about HST is another "holy war" issue, so I'll just say that if you want it - fine, go to another brand. If HST isn't a big issue for you, then yes, it is more than fair to look at what you get for your $$$ with a Kioti vs. a comparable Kubota.

It all boils down to what YOU want and what YOU value. The Kubotas are nice, but so are the Kioti's. They both have +'s & -'s. Look at the features you want and money you have to spend and decide what makes sense for YOU. For the same money, you will get a larger, heavier, higher capacity tractor with more HP in a Kioti vs. a Kubota. If you want HST, a larger dealer network, and name recognition, then Kubota would be the one to go with. Drive 'em both, then make up your mind - It's your choice.

I will say this as a parting shot as a non-Kioti owner, so take it for what it's worth - I've yet to find anyone who has been disappointed with their Kioti.

 

[DK35vince]

AlanL,
I agree with Ranchman( I usually do !)
I suggest you reread the isn't worth the risk thread.
So I wouldn't talk to us about FLACK !!

 

[rtimgray]

Alan- Good to see you step in and defend your tractor of choice. I thought I might purchase a Kubota, but decided to go with the "other" orange tractor. As far as price and features break down, I may have made some generalizations in my previous post. I now have my folder in front of me, so let me clear the waters about how much money I saved. Here are the following tractors that I looked at and how much I was quoted:

Kioti DK 45 w/Industrial Tires $15,500
Mahindra 4110 w/Industrial Tires $14,800
Kubota M4900 (2wd) w/Ag Tires $15,800
Kubota M5700 (2wd) w/Ag Tires $17,300
Kubota M4900 (4wd) w/Ag Tires $19,500
Kubota L4300DT (4wd) w/Industrial Tires $19,800

All of the prices above came from dealers. The Kubota prices included the rebates that Kubota had available at the time. The prices listed are for the bare-naked tractors, with the exception of adding a single hydraulic remote ($600) option to the L4300. All of the other tractors have this feature standard, so it does create a level playing field.
None of the tractors listed above feature a HST. The Kioti and Mahindra feature practically identical synchro-shuttle transmissions, and all of the Kubotas, except the L4300, feature a very similar version of this transmissions for Kubotas. I never saw a L4300, but understood that it has an 8f/2r "traditional" gear-type transmission and did not feature the flat operator deck. Also, when I ordered the DK45, I thought that I was only getting 8 gears, but when it arrived, the dealer told me it had 12 and that all of the new DK45s would have 12 (like the DK50),and that I could get 16 gears if I wanted to add a creeper (12 was enough for me). I thought that Mahindra was a great tractor, featuring a Daedong-Kioti engine no less, and if the DK45 had not be available with great Dealer support, I would have gone with a Mahindra. Yes, I could have gotten a 2wd Kubota for a little more than the Kioti, but I was completely unimpressed with my Kubota dealer (who is about 20 miles from my house, versus the Kioti dealer who is about 60 miles away). The Kubota dealer was far more interested in saying bad things about Kioti, Mahindra, and every other tractor except Kubota than saying good things about his product. Also, the Kioti was delivered to my house for free, but that would have been an upcharge of about $100 at the Kubota dealership. I should note that I also compared a larger grey market Yanmar (YM3810D), a couple of the Millenium/Scorpion Tractors, featuring Kubota and John Deere Powertech engines, but they were all cheaper than the prices listed above. However, the Millenium/Scorpion tractor dealer didn't impress me as being able to service and maintain them, and the YM3810D, while a fine, fine tractor, still was not brand new and didn't have that "new tractor" smell.

In conclusion, I apologize for my exaggeration of $5,000. It turns out that for a fairly comparable tractor (M4900 4wd - although the price was for ag, not industrial tires, so that would be more $$$) for only $4,000 more or a lesser Kubota (no synchro-shuttle or flat deck) for $4,300 more. Now maybe I was getting hosed by the Kubota dealer, but I'm pretty sure that I wasn't getting took by the Kioti dealer. I must say that I am tickled to death with my DK45, would recommend it or my dealer, www.Littletractor.com, to anyone without reservation. I'm just glad that we live in a country where I can own a Kioti, you can own a Kubota, and we're free to argue all we want about who got the better deal. God Bless America!!

Take it easy,

Tim Gray

 

[radar54]

I drove right past a Kubota dealer to get to the Kioti dealer. I don't recall any used Kiotis sitting on his lot that someone might have traded in on a Kubota! As a matter of fact I haven't seen any used Kiotis on the market.

Jeff

 

[Alan L.]

My point was not very well made. I'm aware of the "worth the risk" thread, as I was a poster in that.

The point I was making for someone who hasn't spent their money yet is that when you buy a Kubota you aren't "paying for the name". You're paying for a great product. I can't criticize the Kioti product, as I don't have any first hand knowledge of them. Nor have I read anything particularly negative about them.

I'm just saying some people learn when they compare the two, that the Kubota will tend to be a more modern design, it has the almost spotless track record, and any difference in cost is attributable to the increased amount of research and design that Kubota puts in, to stay on the leading edge.

As for HST, Kubota has been doing that for 25 years or so. I'm not sure if I would want Kioti's first shot at it. As popular as HSTs are, does anyone wonder why Kioti has not had an HST before now? Would it have anything to do with limited engineering and manufacturing resources?

The resale value of the Kubota is not necessarily an advantage, but I was trying to say that whatever you pay extra for the Kubota will there in the resale value - maybe more. If you keep a tractor 20 years thats a long time to wait for the return, but some do actually care about resale.

Guys, if I had a Kioti I would probably like it fine, but a man in the picking out stage is asking all of us for our opinions. I think telling a man that buying one of the big 3 is just paying for the name is misleading.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[rtimgray]

Alan, you make good points about the Kubota. I don't think that anyone here is saying that "Kubotas are overpriced, bad tractors (I certainly wouldn't say that)". I'm also glad that you admit you don't have too much experience with the Kioti tractors. I wish you would do a little first hand research, though, before making such generalized comments. To say that the Kubota product is of a "more modern design" is predominantly a lie. Have you checked out a DK series Kioti? How can these tractors not be called modern? I personally inspected the DK series versus the M4900 and M5300 that I priced, as well as an L4310 that I didn't want to buy or price because it had HST. In my humble opinion, the Kubota and Kioti are on an equal playing field as far as "moderness" goes. That is unless you are talking about...

HST. I've never stated my preference one way or the other for HST versus shuttle or gear. I'll state it now. I've driven an HST Kubota, and HST John Deere, and HST International combine. HST just does not strike me as that great, in my experiences. Certainly not worth the extra dollars. I've noticed on numerous threads debating merits of Kioti versus Kubota, and the Kubota camp almost always pulls the HST gun. Well, watch out, because pretty soon the Kioti camp will have an gun to fire back with. Now that Kioti is preparing to introduce the HST, the Kubota guys seem to question the manufacturing and engineering capabilities of the Kioti company. That is really sad. I hope that you folks realize that Kubota didn't invent the HST (although you may feel that they perfected it). If the HST is so wonderful, why then did Kubota build gear tractors in the past - the Hydrostatic transmission had already been invented, yet Kubota didn't use it immediately. I guess that it must have been because Kubota didn't have the engineering or manufacturing resources - I'm sure it had nothing to do with sales, market analysis, or making a point of having a low entry price.

I can't speak anymore to the pricing controversy. I've stated my case and evidence. If a $4,000 to $4,300 difference isn't sufficient (and I think that the DK 45 would be considered a "more modern design" than the L4300DT, what with shuttle shift and flat deck). Resale is really no concern of mine. I appreciate that you are looking out for someone ready to plunk down their money for a new tractor, but I would say they can, or will, or already have checked out the mountain of Kubota posts on this site for further details of Kubotas and (most likely) slams on Kiotis.

I can tell that these Kioti tractors press a button on many good Kubota folk. I'm not sure what it is, but so many Kubota folk get very defensive on the subject of Kioti vs. Kubota. All I can say is that you may as well settle in, because I think that Kioti will be here for a while. Now if you will excuse me, I have to take my Kioti to the tobacco patch to haul in some of that green gold (it'll be about a 10 hour day for it - I hope it's modern enough to do it).

Take it easy

Tim Gray

 

[northcreek2624]

Alan,I'm supprised that a CPA would use the "resale"card to prove your point.
Let's say I take the $5k I saved (by buying Kioti over Kubota) and put it in a 20 year CD,are you saying you will still be ahead of the game when we sell our tractors after the 20 years? remember now,you gave your $5k to the Kubota dealer...Mike