Help me pick a skid steer

[zmoz]

I'm buying 6 acres of totally undeveloped property...and I've budgeted about $15-20k for a used skid steer to help me tame the land. I need to clear a driveway and a home site, as well as put in a bunch of trenches for utilities and remove a bunch of stumps. And a whole lot of brush clearing.

I've never used a skid steer before but it seems like the most versatile piece of equipment for what I want to do. Seems like there is an attachment for almost everything. The question is what machine do I want? Is there much difference between the brands besides color and preference? What features should I be looking for, and how much power do I really need? Do you think $15-20k is enough to spend to buy one that isn't worn out and unreliable? I'm looking for a wheeled unit, not interested in the extra cost and maintenance for tracks, although I might buy the steel tracks that go over the tires.

How many hours is too many? I've seen a few at the higher end of my budget with only 600-700 hours. And others with more than 4000 hours.

Does it matter much which engine they have? Is there one to avoid? I'd rather not have one with an air cooled engine, other than that it seems like mostly Kubota vs Cummins vs John Deere.

 

[martywny]

As much as I like owning things with diesel engines, I force myself to look at renting specific equipment to clear property or move dirt or whatever - the big jobs. Once that is out of the way you can buy something that fits your budget perfectly.

 

[EddieWalker]

I agree that a skid steer is very versatile with the ability to change out the front bucket for different attachments, it's probably the very worse machine you could buy for working on the land. One of it's strengths is it's ability to easily be moved from one location to another. Second, it has solid tires that will never go flat on a job. Neither are advantages for you because those tires are worthless on anything but solid ground. They also do not have any form of suspension, and it will beat you up like nothing else. While farm tractors and larger construction equipment doesn't have a suspsion, the front axles do articulate and the tires absorb a lot of impact.

For your needs and budget, I think you would get a lot more done, and be a lot happier with a compact tractor. In fact, your two goals are so apposed to each other that I would either buy a full sized backhoe to do all the clearing and then sell it when done, or rent one to get it all done, then buy the compact tractor to maintain it. Just about every manufacturer now offers quick attach for their front loaders, so anything you can put on a skid steer, you can put on a compact tractor.

Nothing digs out stumps like a hoe. A tracked excavator is the best, but it's terrible at carrying debris anywhere. A backhoe is second best because you can add a grapple to the front end and pick up what you take out. Remember, digging is the easy part, getting it to where you are going to dispose of it is where all the time goes.

As for hours, most rental yards get rid of their stuff around the 2,000 hour mark. After that, they know they will be spending more money on maintenance and repairs. They also know they will get the most money for it then. Most equipment is good to 6,000 hours. Then there is a good jump in repairs. At 8,000, it's well worn out. My dozer had 10,000 hours on it when I bought it. It's a never ending project to keep it running. It's what I could afford, and the labor I put into it is the cost of not spending more for a newer machine. My backhoe had 1,800 hours on it when I bought it and it was awesome. Now that it's getting close to 7,000 hours, I'm spending more and more time repairing things on it. You wouldn't believe how many hoses it has!!!!

 

[Snobdds]

$20K is not enough. You will have a wore out SS with only a bucket. You need a dozer to clear the land and put in a road, an excavator to get the stumps out, and a tractor to level everything up. In fact I don't think you need a SS at all.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I too think you want a full size backhoe like a Case 580.
Sorry.

 

[Catchad81]

Why don't we ask how big of trees and how big of stumps? What type of dirt? Beyond that a wheeled skid steer I would not want. Get a tracked unit for sure and one that has a dozer like drive gear. Stay away from the tracked units that have the so called multi terrain undercarriages.

 

[TSO]

Get a tracked unit for sure and one that has a dozer like drive gear. Stay away from the tracked units that have the so called multi terrain undercarriages.

I love my MTL (Multi Terrain Loader) ...the undercarriage offers better traction, ground clearance, and less PSI on the ground. Why are you saying to avoid them?

And to the OP... Yes you can get all kinds of hydraulic attachments for the front of the SS's but keep in mind that they are 2-3 times the cost of tractor mounted (3pt) version. Also, keep in mind that repairs on SS's (and construction equipment in general) seem to be much more expensive than a tractor.

As already suggested, a tractor may be a better option

 

[Rustyiron]

I've had Case, NH, JD & Gehl skid steers, somehow never a BC. All good machines. You should be able to get a good machine @ $15, @ $20, a pretty sweet machine. Keep in mind that all those attachments add up fast, just with basic stuff you could get to $10000 quick. Tracks (over the tire) $2000 - 2500, and you Will want them for your work. They are great machines, but like a Swiss army knife, it'll do everything, but only great at a handfull of them. They really compliment a small excavator, I'd start with that.

 

[zmoz]

Why don't we ask how big of trees and how big of stumps?

At least somebody bothered to ask. I can already tell this thread is going nowhere with all the assumptions being made. I never detailed the type of land or the type of trees. I was being vague on purpose.

Neither are advantages for you because those tires are worthless on anything but solid ground.

There are plenty of videos of skid steers running around on mud with no problems at all, though, I don't plan on working in a mud pit. I think there are a lot of people that would beg to differ that a small 4 wheel drive vehicle is "worthless on anything but solid ground". Also the tracks that go over the tires are rather cheap.

You do know they have backhoe attachments for skid steers right? Also stump grinders, grapples, trenchers, etc...

Check out this guy moving dirt and pulling stumps:
T3 removing stumps - YouTube
OK, I admit he has tracks, but I don't need to move that much dirt either. Nor do I need to work in the mud.

And I can't think of a better way to tackle the brush than this:
Shred the bush like butter !! Heavy duty Bobcat SkidSteer loader Slasher Brush Cutter 152mm - YouTube

$20K is not enough. You will have a wore out SS with only a bucket.

LOL! Obviously you haven't been looking at used skid steers.
Example:
S185 bobcat. 7 hours
Only 700 hours for $13000. The price has been coming down so he will probably take less. Several more in the $10k range with closer to 2000 hours.

I could get one for only SIX grand...now that would be a worn out piece.

 

[Billrog]

I'm only familiar with Bobcat,Case and Thomas skid steers that I've worked on job sites seeing their capability's. I'd recommend not getting one that to small bigger is better. Helped my neighbor 5 years ago buy a Thomas for $10,000 , bucket, blade, chains & forks he's worked the heck out of it & put on well over 1,500 hrs. and so far only replaced one cylinder seal.

 

[alchemysa]

I was being vague on purpose...

I can already tell this thread is going nowhere...

Well if you start a thread with that approach it IS going to go nowhere fast isn't it?

Anyway, I suggest you start with a compact or mid size tractor with a 4in1 bucket and backhoe. Thats what I did for pretty much the same project as you and it has been brilliant. I bought an old Kubota. It wasn't particularly expensive, and its easy to repair. A good skid steer and attachments is going to be very expensive. And skid steers can be very difficult to work on because they cram everything into a small space.


Incidentally, around here most landscapers carry small excavators (instead of skid steers) on their trucks these days. An excavator can do everything a Bobcat can do, plus a whole lot more. I recently bought a cheap Bobcat from a landscaper. He said he hardly uses his skid steers these days. The excavator is far more useful.

 

[TSO]

An excavator can do everything a Bobcat can do, plus a whole lot more. I recently bought a cheap Bobcat from a landscaper. He said he hardly uses his skid steers these days. The excavator is far more useful.

I disagree ... Certainly there are things that both machines can accomplish far better than using the other machine.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Why don't we ask how big of trees and how big of stumps? What type of dirt? Beyond that a wheeled skid steer I would not want. Get a tracked unit for sure and one that has a dozer like drive gear. Stay away from the tracked units that have the so called multi terrain undercarriages.

How much time are you planning for? Clear cut or small parcels years apart?

Skidsteers are cool pieces of equipment. A hoe on a skid steer is not the easiest thing to operate though. Is 20k your forever budget or right now money? Avanti makes a way cool kinda skidsteer, kinda wheel loader, kinda all terrain forklift. A telehandler can do more than most think too (no backhoe)

Picking one? A JD455 track loader (or larger) with 4 n1 and hoe is doable with your budget. It will do everything on your list plus some.

 

[Tomtint]

I have a Cat 246 that I put a full Logering undercarriage on, so now it is a full track machine. .. It is 10x faster to do anything than my Kubota L3700. It has a suspension seat and is relatively comfortable for long hours. I would suspect 20-22k will buy you a decent skidsteer. Mine weighs about 10,000 pounds with the tracks, bucket and machine itself. I can literally push almost any tree over that is less than 10" in diameter. Root ball and all. This is waaaaaaaay faster than digging them out.

 

[zmoz]

Well if you start a thread with that approach it IS going to go nowhere fast isn't it?

Trying to have a conversation mostly about the machine itself and not the land. The question was not "should I buy a skid steer", but rather "which one should I buy?".

Since we must, the land is mostly flat, there will be little earth moving to do. I want to leave as many trees as I can, there are many old growth hardwoods. If any bigger trees need to be removed I will probably have somebody come in and take them for the lumber. Much of the forest just needs to be thinned out, a few 12" or smaller trees, and a lot of thick vines and brush. There is a creek running through the middle which requires a 50' buffer on each side, which leaves about 2.6 acres where the tractor is not allowed and will be left mostly wild. The biggest job would be putting in a gravel driveway about 1000' long, but I think I can find a path without much over a 12" tree in the way.

One of the reasons I want a skid steer is for the portability, I can bring it with me on a trailer and use it like a forklift to buy heavy things. I realize a big heavy track loader would be better at removing a stump, or moving big earth, but that's not the majority of what I need to do. I need something to maintain the land after it's clear and a skid steer is something I can navigate through the woods more easily. I thought the backhoe attachments looked a little awkward to use, but after watching a few videos they look like they work pretty well:
Bobcat 463 backhoe - YouTube
I like that Avant skid steer but probably not as likely to find one for sale used.

I can get a backhoe attachment for around $2,000, a brush cutter for around $3,000, and $2,000 for over tire tracks...and still spend $13k for a machine with just a bucket.

 

[alchemysa]

One of the reasons I want a skid steer is for the portability, I can bring it with me on a trailer and use it like a forklift to buy heavy things.

Skid steers are surprisingly heavy suckers. They are much heavier than a conventional tractor of similar capability. You'd be looking at 3 tons or more for anything around mid-sized. That means you'll need a hefty trailer with electric self actuating brakes and an automatic breakaway system. There's another $5,000 to $10,000.

 

[joefromga]

Also being heavier they get stuck in the woods mud much easier than a tractor and thus much harder to extract.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Trying to have a conversation mostly about the machine itself and not the land. The question was not "should I buy a skid steer", but rather "which one should I buy?".

Since we must, the land is mostly flat, there will be little earth moving to do. I want to leave as many trees as I can, there are many old growth hardwoods. If any bigger trees need to be removed I will probably have somebody come in and take them for the lumber. Much of the forest just needs to be thinned out, a few 12" or smaller trees, and a lot of thick vines and brush. There is a creek running through the middle which requires a 50' buffer on each side, which leaves about 2.6 acres where the tractor is not allowed and will be left mostly wild. The biggest job would be putting in a gravel driveway about 1000' long, but I think I can find a path without much over a 12" tree in the way.

One of the reasons I want a skid steer is for the portability, I can bring it with me on a trailer and use it like a forklift to buy heavy things. I realize a big heavy track loader would be better at removing a stump, or moving big earth, but that's not the majority of what I need to do. I need something to maintain the land after it's clear and a skid steer is something I can navigate through the woods more easily. I thought the backhoe attachments looked a little awkward to use, but after watching a few videos they look like they work pretty well:
Bobcat 463 backhoe - YouTube
I like that Avant skid steer but probably not as likely to find one for sale used.

I can get a backhoe attachment for around $2,000, a brush cutter for around $3,000, and $2,000 for over tire tracks...and still spend $13k for a machine with just a bucket.

Ok, so we're back to time and money. Parts support, hydraulic hoses especially becomes the next issue if you're going to fix it yourself. If not, a mobile mechanic (90ish an hour here) has to be in the budget.
The bigger the better, IMO. For work, I'm running an ASV-100, which was a huge step up from the -60 I had. More hp and weight is ok. For the farm, I picked up a 1997 scatrak 2300 with 2500 hours for 3k. If I could find a ASV-4810 cheap, I'd get that without hesitation. It is a beast.
There's some good machines available, picking a brand gets tough. Too many of them have switched hands. I like my ASV, but wouldn't buy a new one. Kubota would be my first pick for new. Side entry on the jcb looks neat, but i've never tried one. Pick one you like and open everything with heavy maintenance in mind. How accessible is everything, battery, starter, oil drain and filter, hydraulic filters. How easy is it to pull the motor, tandem pumps? Separate implement pump? The more electronic gadgets, the shorter the machines life may be.

A grapple bucket/root rake is another must have for your list. Picking up brush, logs, rocks, hay bales, pipe, etc. A backup camera system is a huge plus, SS's have horrible backwards views.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Also being heavier they get stuck in the woods mud much easier than a tractor and thus much harder to extract.

Not really, less ground clearance can be an issue. Getting yourself unstuck just takes time and a little ingenuity sometimes.

 

[EddieWalker]

Since you are committed to buying probably the worse machine possible for taking care of the land, and spending the most money possible on attachments for doing this, I look forward to following your progress in working your intentionally vaguely described land. It really doesn't matter what brand you buy, they are all so similar that what you are paying for is extra features or HP.

Why not rent one and see how well it performs? I rent them all the time for different jobs. Bobcat is pretty much bullet proof with Kubota engines and years of abuse going into their design from rental yards all over the country.

Good advice was given to you based on many years of experience from those who took the time to reply.