Help, No forward motion!

   / Help, No forward motion! #1  

coolconnection

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
334
Location
Ohio
Tractor
Massey Ferguson GC1723
Using my power-trac 425 today to move some wood mulch around and I was backing up and it wouldn't stop. Thank goodness I was going slow but no neutral, no forward and NO STOP! It is stuck in reverse, tram pedal doesn't do anything but make it go faster in reverse. I had the tram pump replaced a few years ago and the old one did not feel like this when it went out. Any ideas?
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It is hydraulic tram activated.
Well talked to Terry at tazwell. It's the main pump again. That thing is a bear to take out because all of those hoses and draining out the oil. What a pain.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #5  
I feel your pain.........specifically my knuckles feel your pain.......I remember saying how the heck did they ever get some of those hoses in there.......besides taping and numbering each hose the best thing I did was take pictures of it all as I was disassembling.......can't tell you how many times I looked at those pic's when I was putting it back together again......Jack
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Well I got the rebuilt pump and connected all the hoses and made sure pump still had oil in it and put the rest back together. Tried to purge the air out of the lines and nothing. Absolutely nothing comes out of the bleeder line. Disconnected some hoses and filled them with oil and still nothing. Loosened the filter and made sure oil was in it and the hydraulic line and still nothing. I know the pump is turning because I pulled back the lift lever and the arms went up an inch or so. I'll call Terry back but if someone has any ideas between now and when I talk to him I'm listening. I really need to mow my grass. Thanks.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #7  
Did you fill the line from the filter to the pump with oil, and allow it to prime by sucking in more oil? (Slow crank, no spark) The motor lines already oil filled, right?

It sounds to me like it can't prime itself. I assume that is plumbed correctly.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Did you fill the line from the filter to the pump with oil, and allow it to prime by sucking in more oil? (Slow crank, no spark) The motor lines already oil filled, right? It sounds to me like it can't prime itself. I assume that is plumbed correctly. All the best, Peter
Yes that line is full and I also removed the top hose and filled the pump as oil drained out as I connected hoses to it. Thanks for the replies.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #9  
The lack of oil in the bleeder line means that the charge pump for the variable volume pump isn't pumping oil.

If the input hose is full of oil, I can't think why a functioning charge pump shouldn't be pumping oil. I'm stumped. Terry?

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Terry had me lightly pressurize the main oil holding tank with air to see if forcing some oil in the pump while cranking it over would help prime the pump but I didn't have any luck doing it. Maybe new pump is bad I don't know.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #11  
Are all three of your pumps piggy backed? As in; engine, tram pump, AUX PTO/steering/lift pump, main PTO pump.
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Yes they are stacked. Well I talked to Terry. I am sending the pump back for them to look at. It should have been sucking oil into it according to him with all the things he had me try. That guy knows his stuff. Bad thing is that pump is a bear to install and remove.
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Can you believe almost 2 years to the day the stupid pump went out again. This will be pump 5 in 10 years that I've had to put in this thing. I am getting real good at taking them off and putting back on. You know when you send back you original pump you do not get yours back. You get the next one off the shelf. That is why they have such a good turn around. i know because I took lots of pictures of my pumps and the stamped numbers are different. Anyway anybody know the model numbers of these Bondioli & Pavesi pumps. I am tired of rebuilds. I want a new one. Some of you have had yours 20 years with no problems. You seriouly abuse the machines and your pumps are still working great. I have 390 hours on my machine and now 5th pump. This is ridiculous for this to keep happening. I live on a hill but I don't mow the hill because it is mostly trees all around me. Occasionally i will go up a slope but I mostly mow flat level. i come to a full stop before going in reverse or forward. I don't get it, Power-trac tells me the swash plate keep comming off or breaks. This makes me nervous getting a rebuilt pump. So how many of you had to replace your pumps and anyone got a model number for a new one since Power-trac convieniently takes that information off? I got a lemmon when it comes to tram pumps. The scary part is once this goes out you keep going forward and it cannot stop. You have to throttle it down where you want it to stop because good luck starting again and then turn it off with the key or stall it. That is the only way. Tomorrow looks like I am draining the oil again and prepare to take the pump off.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #16  
Can you believe almost 2 years to the day the stupid pump went out again. This will be pump 5 in 10 years that I've had to put in this thing. I am getting real good at taking them off and putting back on. You know when you send back you original pump you do not get yours back. You get the next one off the shelf. That is why they have such a good turn around. i know because I took lots of pictures of my pumps and the stamped numbers are different. Anyway anybody know the model numbers of these Bondioli & Pavesi pumps. I am tired of rebuilds. I want a new one. Some of you have had yours 20 years with no problems. You seriouly abuse the machines and your pumps are still working great. I have 390 hours on my machine and now 5th pump. This is ridiculous for this to keep happening. I live on a hill but I don't mow the hill because it is mostly trees all around me. Occasionally i will go up a slope but I mostly mow flat level. i come to a full stop before going in reverse or forward. I don't get it, Power-trac tells me the swash plate keep comming off or breaks. This makes me nervous getting a rebuilt pump. So how many of you had to replace your pumps and anyone got a model number for a new one since Power-trac convieniently takes that information off? I got a lemmon when it comes to tram pumps. The scary part is once this goes out you keep going forward and it cannot stop. You have to throttle it down where you want it to stop because good luck starting again and then turn it off with the key or stall it. That is the only way. Tomorrow looks like I am draining the oil again and prepare to take the pump off.

I do not know what to say. That is just awful. Sorry for your situation.

As far as I know, they are Bondioli & Pavesi pumps. I have no idea what model number.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #17  
So how many of you had to replace your pumps and anyone got a model number for a new one since Power-trac convieniently takes that information off?

Assuming it's a 21 cc Bondioli & Pavesi (look for displacement stamp on top of pump as shown in image below), the part number is HP31221K2351611. They are usually custom made in Italy and it will take 12+ weeks to get one. The price will be over $2K. Transaxle (TransAxle | The Premier Remanufacturer of Transmissions, Axles and Hydraulics.) can order one for you. Give them the number above.

Or...you can buy a new one directly from PT. It will cost a few hundred dollars more but there's no waiting and no hassle.

BP_zpsz9pcyc7a.jpg
 
   / Help, No forward motion!
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Assuming it's a 21 cc Bondioli & Pavesi (look for displacement stamp on top of pump as shown in image below), the part number is HP31221K2351611. They are usually custom made in Italy and it will take 12+ weeks to get one. The price will be over $2K. Transaxle (TransAxle | The Premier Remanufacturer of Transmissions, Axles and Hydraulics.) can order one for you. Give them the number above.

Or...you can buy a new one directly from PT. It will cost a few hundred dollars more but there's no waiting and no hassle.

BP_zpsz9pcyc7a.jpg

Do you think this is the same pump they are putting on new power tracs? Usually with time there are upgrades and improvements. Don't want an old pump with possible problems. My tractor is 10 years old this year. Anyone else having these issues? I am getting older and don't need these problems.
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #19  
Do you think this is the same pump they are putting on new power tracs? Usually with time there are upgrades and improvements. Don't want an old pump with possible problems. My tractor is 10 years old this year. Anyone else having these issues? I am getting older and don't need these problems.
unless they found cheaper pumps for more profit, it could be..
 
   / Help, No forward motion! #20  
Do you think this is the same pump they are putting on new power tracs? Usually with time there are upgrades and improvements. Don't want an old pump with possible problems. My tractor is 10 years old this year. Anyone else having these issues? I am getting older and don't need these problems.

If PT changed the pump to something else, would you know how to connect it if the plumbing is different now? If so, you can source any variable displacement pump, with hydraulic remote control of the swash plate, in the 21cc range rated for 3600+ RPM's. If not, you better stick with what's in your current tractor.

I would bet PT is using the same pump. They like this pump for a variety of reasons. The same exact pump, with a slightly larger displacement, is/was used in the 1430. A quick call to Terry will confirm. On the call, you can also confirm the price for a new one. Unless you're willing to wait a long time or have detailed knowledge of hydraulic systems, your choices are limited anyway...at least if money and time are an issue, not to mention hassle.

Regarding your pump failure, this is very strange. If they are rebuilding your existing pump every time, then I would definitely want a new pump or another rebuild one. There's NO WAY the pump should fail this many times.

Perhaps unrelated, but you MUST make sure the filter is on VERY tight whenever its changed. When the tractor is cold and the oil is thick, air can get in if the filter isn't tight enough (I have a suspicion this is a common problem with early PT pump failures...early being less than 2000 hours). Also, when the tractor is cold, let it warm up for at least ten minutes before moving the tractor. I have several pieces of Kubota equipment and they want a 30 MINUTE warm up if it's below 32 degrees. And that's with multi-viscosity synthetic tractor fluid...which is much thinner than motor oil (less likely to cavitate).
 

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