Help! Selecting generator....

[khd]

<font color="blue">( might cost, and I said I didn't have a clue. Just to throw out a number, I said, "$20,000." )

I think you are good to go.. if she didn't blink at 20k. I think you should be able to pick up a big standy gennt for less.. even with switchbox and install.
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The one we have at work is 65Kw natural gas and an auto transfer switch. Purchase price on it w/ the switch was less than 25k plus another 10 for the electrician. 20k should be pleanty enough, as Soundguy said, to get a whole house and auto switch system with install.
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Just keep in mind the larger you go and the more automation that goes into it the more it costs you to run and maintain. I spend 1000/yr on a service contract and last spring when the switch "relay's" (the coils that drive the switch closed and hold it open) went bad it was over 2k for parts and labor to fix it. A home is not as "mission critical" but the cost of the system isn't worth a penny if it doesn't work when you need it. It is definitely a constantly maintainable item.


Regards,
Kevin

 

[drzmatt]

I have a Generac generator from Home Depot. I've had good luck with it so far. I think that all of the bad press that Generac has gotten on this forum is all from one person.

 

[ByronBob]

It wasn't the generator which got him mad it was the customer service or lack of it which bothered him. Most people realize that humans build this stuff and we as humans are able to make mistakes. But to play the "it's the other guy's fault" stuff runaround just gets people mad.

 

[jimgerken]

I will let you follow all the other excellent advice on generator size. However, I will add a new twist (to this thread anyway). I had a nice Honda powered 6500 watt peak unit, and it powered my house and well just fine, not including the air conditioning (never tried it). At first when it was new, it was kinda fun to have an occasion to use it. I used it for a couple outages, and many small projects too far from a power outlet in the yard. Also used it to power electric drill and saw to help build an airplane hangar in the middle of a field with no other power. It was great. I owned it for five years. Here's the eventual problem: It sets around waiting to be used. Gasoline goes stale in the tank and carb, even if you treat and drain most of it. Oil seals eventually weep from inactivity. You must run it monthly to keep it working well, preferably under load. Even if doing this monthly excersize, it will degrade over time and require a carb and tank cleaning every couple years. And its what I call "another mouth to feed" because it is a gas engine needing routine maintenance like oil changes, etc. It bothered me to have it around eventually, so I sold it. The plan is to replace with PTO powered unit of twice its size, which I can just run with my CUT. That way, no gasoline at all, diesel lasts longer and runs cheaper, tractor engine has better torque, larger alternator and tractor combined have great rolling inertia to help start larger loads, and more advantages like it takes lees space, no leaking oil and fuel fumes. I will still need to exercise it, but that should be easy without the complication of fuel in and fuel back out, oil changes, etc. Also, I am buying this 13 Kw PTO unit for the same price I originally paid for the Honda powered 6.5 Kw unit (twice the power for the same money). My 2 cents...

 

[aardvark]

All this thinking about generators makes me wish I had a waterwheel. Let a river and some gravity do all the work to power the generator.

 

[reb]

What you say makes sense. I have thought about PTO generators, but wonder about the voltage regulation. How much does the voltage change with changes in load? A complete engine/ generator usually has some feedback to increase the fuel to the engine when the load increases, keeping the output fairly constant. Also, how does the frequency vary with load? Another consideration is whether a PTO generator will idle down when the load goes off, as most normal generators will.

 

[jimgerken]

I cannot answer all your questions, yet, not having owned the PTO generator. My Honda powered unit did NOT idle down with load removal. I think this is a small-set only feature. I cannot imagine what would happen if you had it at idle and the water well pump motor kicked on. Part of the frequency or voltage regulation (i am not sure which or how they are related) is the speed regulation of the engine. In the case of the tractor PTO, it is held constant with a governer, in response to changing loads (within reason). My Honda unit had the same thing basically, just like my John Deere CUT, and just like my Murray push mower. A governer changes the power setting based on the load. the Honda generator was adjustable, but it ran at that one wide open setting all the time once set. I have read that it is a good thing to ask when buying a generator: Voltage levels at no load, and full load, and ask for a description or specification of the voltage output variation when PTO speed varies by plus or minus 5%. To me, this implies that frequency will be set by PTO (engine) speed. It would be a real nice luxury to have somthing sensing the frequency and setting the engine speed based on that, dynamically. I am sure that larger (more expensive) units with dedicated attached engines have this feature. I will be content with setting throttle and monitoring the voltage and frequency with one of the Radio Shock meters which are available.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Also, I am buying this 13 Kw PTO unit )</font>

I had the same thoughts.

After rebuilding the carb on my B/S lawnmower engine twice in 2 years for a sticky float needle due to winter storage.. I decided I didn't want another engine. I just got the 13/12kw pto genny from northern tools. Nice unit.. looks beefy.

I have 2 posts about it in the attatchment area.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( have thought about PTO generators, but wonder about the voltage regulation. How much does the voltage change with changes in load? )</font>

My pto generator has worked ok so far... with the limited test I have done with it ( smal power tools / lamp ).

I hooked it up to a vom and freq counter and it held 120vac and 60hz with or without the power tool load, which again.. a 3-10 amp load on a 12kw genny is not a valid load test for drawing a conclusion from. As I use it more.. I'll post back.

Soundguy

 

[GoodGuy]

How come there is no discussion about tractor PTO Generators ?? Everyone is talking stand-alone units & no one is talking PTO Driven. Is the general consensus that the stand-alone units are the way to go ??
Eric

 

[fractal]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How come there is no discussion about tractor PTO Generators ?? Everyone is talking stand-alone units & no one is talking PTO Driven. Is the general consensus that the stand-alone units are the way to go ??
Eric )</font>

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but when I looked at generators I came to a few conclusions.

First, for us city slicker types with wives and familes less enamored with "country life", the thought of going out in the middle of a storm to back the tractor up to the genset and hooking up the pto shaft in the rain is less than enamoring. Next, a quick evaluation of our needs show that we really can get by with 4-6kw portable generator, and the pricing on "disposable" generators that we buy for "insurance" makes them very difficult to ignore. I can get a week of keeping the freezer frozen, food cooked and media monitored from 10 galons of gas stored in the shed 100 ft from the house along with the gas out of one of the vehicles and a small portable generator.

Natural gas generators (propane for those who otherwise get it delivered) with automatic transfer switches and automatic weekly run are NOT that expensive and are a good choice for low hassle power where electricity fails often. I have a friend in upstate NY who looses power for hours to days at a time, several times every winter who has one and he has never lost gas. The real test was when he was out of country one storm. He came back and the generator was running. His wife said "oh yes, it has been making noise for the past couple of days ... is that ok?". She never even noticed that the neighbors did not have power. He spends more every year on the service contract on his generator than I spent on my box store generator.

After hearing all of that, I wondered "why do they even make PTO gensets". And then heard. PTO gensets are a godsend to dairy farmers who stand to loose thousands if they don't get them cows milked on time and the milk cooled, and to chicken farmers who can loose a whole barn full of birds if the fans aren't on during the heat of the day. A standalone generator capable of operating a milking machine and the coolers is many times the price of a PTO genset and they often have more than one tractor on the facility. To them, hooking up the genset to do the milking or loosing thousands is easy. To a city girl who has to ask "do I go out in the rain, figure out how to back the tractor up to the generator and hook it up, or do I let the food spoil and complain about how bad my husband is", the answer is equally obvious /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So, I have a coleman 2 kw portable generator with a 5hp motor that I bought after loma prieta (1989). I have used it in a storm once. I run it for 5 minutes then change the oil once a year (or so) just to be safe.

The one thing I will say about portable gasoline generators is ... many / most are loud, very loud. I still have some concerns that operating one in a period of extended power outage might attract unwanted attention.

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How come there is no discussion about tractor PTO Generators ?? Everyone is talking stand-alone units & no one is talking PTO Driven. . .Eric )</font>

Here is one discussion on a slick PTO generator set-up going on in Projects Neal's Generator . . .

There are several other discussions on generators also going on in other forums and they are hitting on PTO generators also.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How come there is no discussion about tractor PTO Generators )</font>

There are quite a few pto gen and belt driven gen head discussions going on in the attatchment sub.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Is the general consensus that the stand-alone units are the way to go ??
)</font>

Considering I have 6 tractors.. a pto gen is the way to go for me. If you don;'t have a tractor.. a standalone unit may be good.. they are very convienient for portability.

Also.. Ive heard many say that they may need their tractor for cleanup duties.. and don't want them tied down to a genset. 2 tractors might help that though. your milage may vary.

Soundguy