Help Starting Problem

[cardenharry]

My tractor is a CaseIH DX33 which I understand is the same as a TC33D. Recently it acted as if the battery was weak. The starter would just grunt when the key was turned. I carried the battery to a local auto parts store and they said it tested ok. Since the batter was produced in 03 I bought a new one anyway. The tractor started right up and I have used it a little just a few times but it has been so dry I have not used it much. Anyway, this morning it is doing the same thing. Some time back I think I read some comments about defective ignition switches on this type tractor. Does this sound like that problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated. How hard is it to take off the cover where the ignition switch is. Thanks

 

[Soundguy]

Check battery connections first.. you may have a bad one that was 'remidied' temporarilly by manipulating the cable when you changed out batteries.

Also check block ground, and interlock switches.

Not sure about the TC series.. but on most of the CNH units you get to the back of the dash by removing the cowling.. etc.

You can test your theory with jumper wires and gator clips.. IE.. jump power tot he solenoid.. for safety.. be in the seat when you do this..

Soundguy

 

[thclimer]

I have a TC33D and am also having a problem with starting it as well. However, my situation sounds a little different than yours, but maybe not entirely. As Soundguy has recommended I would check your electrical connections first. I too had an old/weak battery, which has now been replaced. My scenario went as follows (sorry this a long post):

Turn key to the right into the glow plug position, wait 5 seconds for glow plug light to go out, then turn key further into the spring back position for engaging the starter however my starter never engaged and after trying this a few times I blew my main 30 amp fuse (stupid me).

So, like you I now have a new battery.

After the new battery installation everything seemed to work fine...turn key to the right, glow plug light would come on, after 5 seconds time out, turn key into spring back position, starter would engage and in 2-3 cranks engine would run fine.

So now what happens is when I turn the key to the glow plug position the instrument panel lights up with everything (battery light, oil light, Parking light, etc) except the glow plug light. The 540 & 600 rpm indicators even light up and after 5 seconds go off. Now I turn the key to the spring back position and the starter engages and after about 5-6 cranks the engine begins to run. What's interesting is that when I hit the spring back position the glow plug light illuminates. I thought it was the ignition switch so I took it out and actually disassembled it to find a spring and contact, which was being held up by what appeared to be some, melted plastic. I thought I had cleaned it up and used a volt meter to check for continuity after I put it back together between the 2 sets of contacts and it appeared to be working fine. Except last night when I reinstalled everything I got the same results of no initial glow plug light. Lets just say these ignition switches are pretty flimsy. So while I get continuity with a meter maybe the contact for the glow plug timer first initiation just isn't allowing the required current to flow.

When it comes to electrical stuff I know barely enough to get in trouble so I could be wrong about all this. My next plan for attack of this issue is to replace the switch a more robust metal one from NAPA (like others have done). I could get another New Holland one but then I think it would be susceptible to the same issues.

To answer your question about how to get to the ignition switch you need to remove the section of cowling which it is mounted in by removing the four bolts/screws, which hold it on the tractor. Two are mounted in the left edge of this cowling below the instrument panel between your legs as you are sitting in your seat. The other two are located on the right hand side; you get to them by removing the panel, which your oil dipstick protrudes through. The ignition switch itself it held on with a plastic nut in the front and then there is a 4-pin electrical connector on the back.

 

[SteveInMD]

It's probably a good idea to replace the switch.

Also, there is a service bulletin for the problem where you end up blowing a fuse. Basically a relay is added to create another circuit that sends power directly to the starter solenoid, instead of through a variety of safety interlocks first. Once the interlock circuit energizes properly the relay closes and sends power to the solenoid. With the original wiring, if any of the interlock switches are dirty you end up with low voltage at the solenoid and then you blow the fuse.

 

[Soundguy]

Hats off to you for being curious enough to tear into that switch.. I might have for curiosity sake as well.. even though i would have likely replaced the switch for good measure anyway..( I road my tractor and would hate to break down on/in the road due to a very replaceable switch.. etc.. ) Usually those units are not very repairable.. and if there was melted potting in there.. likely a contact has been allowed to move out of rotary position due to excessive current flow ( when 30a fuse blew - possibly because GP's were staying activated ).

good luck

Soundguy

I have a TC33D and am also having a problem with starting it as well. However, my situation sounds a little different than yours, but maybe not entirely. As Soundguy has recommended I would check your electrical connections first. I too had an old/weak battery, which has now been replaced. My scenario went as follows (sorry this a long post):

Turn key to the right into the glow plug position, wait 5 seconds for glow plug light to go out, then turn key further into the spring back position for engaging the starter however my starter never engaged and after trying this a few times I blew my main 30 amp fuse (stupid me).

So, like you I now have a new battery.

After the new battery installation everything seemed to work fine...turn key to the right, glow plug light would come on, after 5 seconds time out, turn key into spring back position, starter would engage and in 2-3 cranks engine would run fine.

So now what happens is when I turn the key to the glow plug position the instrument panel lights up with everything (battery light, oil light, Parking light, etc) except the glow plug light. The 540 & 600 rpm indicators even light up and after 5 seconds go off. Now I turn the key to the spring back position and the starter engages and after about 5-6 cranks the engine begins to run. What's interesting is that when I hit the spring back position the glow plug light illuminates. I thought it was the ignition switch so I took it out and actually disassembled it to find a spring and contact, which was being held up by what appeared to be some, melted plastic. I thought I had cleaned it up and used a volt meter to check for continuity after I put it back together between the 2 sets of contacts and it appeared to be working fine. Except last night when I reinstalled everything I got the same results of no initial glow plug light. Lets just say these ignition switches are pretty flimsy. So while I get continuity with a meter maybe the contact for the glow plug timer first initiation just isn't allowing the required current to flow.

When it comes to electrical stuff I know barely enough to get in trouble so I could be wrong about all this. My next plan for attack of this issue is to replace the switch a more robust metal one from NAPA (like others have done). I could get another New Holland one but then I think it would be susceptible to the same issues.

To answer your question about how to get to the ignition switch you need to remove the section of cowling which it is mounted in by removing the four bolts/screws, which hold it on the tractor. Two are mounted in the left edge of this cowling below the instrument panel between your legs as you are sitting in your seat. The other two are located on the right hand side; you get to them by removing the panel, which your oil dipstick protrudes through. The ignition switch itself it held on with a plastic nut in the front and then there is a 4-pin electrical connector on the back.

 

[jinman]

So now what happens is when I turn the key to the glow plug position the instrument panel lights up with everything (battery light, oil light, Parking light, etc) except the glow plug light. The 540 & 600 rpm indicators even light up and after 5 seconds go off.

When I see something strange like this, I always suspect a ground problem. If current cannot get to ground as it should, it will often find a path going backwards through lights. Since all lights in the instrument panel have a common ground, they all will light dimly. I don't know for sure, but I'd sure look for a ground interruption if I had your symptoms.

 

[Ford850]

Do a search for "Switch" in the title of the CaseIH forum. There was a solution posted there in December I think. It described how to wire a better quality, less expensive, switch as a replacement.

 

[thclimer]

Thanks for all your comments.

The ignition switch is going to be replaced, for now I'm using jumpers to simulate it.

I believe I have isolated the problem to the Glow Plug Timer Relay #7. I have bench tested the relay several times now and it works fine. However, I believe the problem lies with a wire (possibly HM10) connection between it and the Glow Plug Power Relay #3. As you can see in the attached picture the wires are really being stretched from the harness to the white connector on the timer, this might be the problem. Does anyone else's wires look this tight?

I know there has never been any work done on my tractor so it must have come from the factory like this. When you first turn the key switch, the timer is supposed to come on for 5 seconds and send power to the coil of Relay #3 allowing the glow plugs to power up. I believe it's this connection between Relay #7 and #3 that is my missing issue. When you turn the key further to engage the starter the power to the coil for Relay #3 comes through the Neutral Start Relay #1.

While I will not be able to troubleshoot the problem for another week since I'll be out of town I hope to get back to it shortly. I'll let you know what I fine out.

 

[Soundguy]

Looks like it is time to see if that wire(s) has an internal break.. IE.. unhook it and see if it gets power when it is suposed to. if so.. try to give it some strain relief and see if that helps.. if so.. might be a contact issue witht he strain on the plug.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[thclimer]

Well, I just wanted to give an update since I have now had another chance to work on my Glow Plug issue. I was able to loosen the wires going to the glow plug timer by disconnecting the connector and feeding it back through a few wires freeing up some space. However, once I did this I plugged it back in, turned the ignition switch to the first position and still no glow plugs. I then searched for a loose connection but cold not find anything that looked obvious so I put everything back together bolting the shrouds back on because I had to get the grass cut. Once I got everything together I go to start the tractor and what do you know, the Glow Plug light is coming on with the first turn of the ignition switch. I still intend to replace the ignition switch, but I sure wish I had been able to find the issue when the weather is nice. I can now see myself doing this all over again in about 4 months when it's 20 below and the west wind is howling at 30mph and I'm knee deep in snow.