Help, the dealer let someone steal my 2210!!!

[BigAl]

Hey ,
It's your opinion ,and I can respect that . I won't agree with it , but i'll respect it .

Oh ,I almost forgot ! I was in Construction for 35 years . We did a little bit of everything , Roads ,Dams , Commercial , homes and remodels . Oh Yeah ! And lots and lots and lots of Insurance repair work . About 80 % in our area alone . I personally worked with many adjusters from many insurance company's and I can tell you that they are not the last word in Claims filed against the insurance companies .I was also a "expert witness" in many court trials on this .They are the first line of defense a insurance company uses . Most people stop there with there claims ,but they do not have to .

Oh ! And if I was going to a movie and thought I might get my vehicle broke into , I think I would just skip that movie since my car is running fine and now I am afaid to take it to a dealer .good grief ! I guess I better go find me a tow truck to buy, just in case !

What I am trying to say is I went to a movie and my car ,tractor or whatever was fine and did not need repair .I have insurance if it is stolen while I watch the movie .
I took my car,tractor or whatever to the dealer or repair shop because I needed something repaired on it .I still have insurance . I did not see a movie .I paid a fee to have it repaired .Part of that fee is called "OVERHEAD COST " . Which is the cost of operating a business and keeping the doors open for business. Rent ,wages .license fees ,etc. and oh yea !INSURANCE! is part of this .

I guess from now on all people needing repair should ask their dealer whose is to blame if problems, like this arise ,and who will be responible if this happens . That should weed out a few bad apples real quick . A good lawyer would tear that "see our sign" defense apart .

I hate to disappoint you but "movies and car repair" are not apples to apples comparisons .

Disclaimer:<This is my opinion and your mileage may vary . If your tractor is stolen ,tough luck. I went to the movies >

 

[trlong]

Robinson,

Again, thanks for the clarifications. Hodem's unfortunate loss has been a benefit to the rest of us, as it is a "wake-up call" regarding our assumptions.

Along with your clarifications, I have been thoroughly "re-educated" by my wife on this form of "loss". Having worked in banking and insurance for years, and now for the VT A.G.'s office for nearly 15 years, she gave me a thorough lecture (yet not compeltely comprehensible to my limited attention span) /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif on liability. What an eye opener.

Obviously "Common Sense" or "Common Assumptions" are in need of serious re-calibration here. Most all of "our" knee-jerk reactions have been that the dealer/service company would, should, be responsible for our tractors when entrusted to them. Equally as obvious, from what we should now have all learned, is that the dealer/service company is only responsible if there is clear negligence. Along with what ever caviats the insurance and legal community can find to throw in.

As for the Movie theater, grocery store, ... parking lot, let's leave those scenario's out of the discussion. They are not comparable as we do not expect a theater or grocery store to drive, service, or store our vehicles. They simply provide parking areas while we patronize their business (yes, lots of legal caviats here but S#$# happens). I, for one, don't expect some one else to always pay for any bad thing that happens to me.

Again, this whole incident is extremetly unfortunate for Hodem and I'm sure we are all saddened by his loss. The "up side" is that we may have all learned a valuable lesson. 1st, check your insurance policy. 2nd, check the dealer's insurance policy and/or disclaimers.

Hodem,

Please keep up posted on how this turns out. I hope the end result is of minimal damage to you, and perhaps the dealer will help you bear any loss. If so, please let us know so that we can praise the dealer for going beyond what was legally required to provide "good will" with a customer. ALSO: Unless there is some privacy/security issue at stake, it might be good if you posted the Model #, S/N, Motor S/N, etc... One never knows who reads this forum and might see one of the numbers show up somewhere.

Tom

 

[robison]

Rayder, I agree with you that a conversation with a local attorney would be most productive in determining where to go.

And I understand that not all states have adopted the UCC and some have modified it. My point that this part of law with respect to dealer liability is not 180 degrees apart from state to state is still valid, as far as I know. I did a magazine article on this very topic for an automotive service magazine and that particular question was addressed by counsel for Universal for my article. There are differences but a lot of similarity.

I've been active in management training for auto dealers for along time and I have had tremendous help from the counsels of Zurich/Universal, Arbella, State Farm and other private counsel who have been good enough to research my questions.

I guess I joined in this post becase the overwhelming body of opinion from other posters was along the lines of "the dealer is automatically at fault" . . .and that assumption is simply wrong.

It's clear to me that many people have an incorrect understnding of many rules governing vehicle service. Another poster suggested "an attorney would make mincemeat of those "not responsible for articles stolen sign . ." that Bird mentioned. Well, the New England states and others specifically address that question in their law. And those signs, properly posted, are an acceptable disclosure for "not responsible for theft of contents", storage charges, and many other things.

I think you made an excellent point: The customer and the dealer are both victims of criminals. The customer is not a victim of the dealer.

There are many scenarions for this loss where the dealer is responsible, but there are many more where the dealer isn't. People need to understand that. We do not know all the facts so we can't decide responsibility here.

If we recognize that both parties are victims it easier to understand that both parties should look to protect their own interests.

A wise dealer is only going to use his insurance to pay for (only) things he is truly responsible for because acting otherwise will penalize him with higher rates or cancellations. In the case of automobile dealerships, 75% of the multi point dealers in the United States are covered by Universal Underwriters, a specialty unit of Zurich. Because they have such vast market share they are very good at looking at the facts of these type cases and advising their dealers correctly. Auto dealers is all they do, and they do most of them.

Dealers generally make small repairs like BigAl mentioned from internal goodwill budgets, not insurance.

And consumers should understand that homeowner coverage is broader in scope tham many realize. Reading my own policy, from Chubb, it's clear that I would be covered for the loss of my tractor from that dealership.

Homeowners policies vary quite a bit in this regard and I'd suggest folks here find out what the scope of THEIR coverage is in various situations.

Now, Chubb might try and recover from the dealers insurer, or the dealer's insurer in another scenario might try and recover from the homeowner policy but that's another matter . . .

 

[hodoms]

I will try to keep everyone up to date on what happens. The serials number for the tractor and deck are below:

2210 serial# LV2210H433007
62C Deck serial# MO62CBD062062

 

[Garrabo]

thats pretty gutsy of that dealer trying to make you claim it on your insurance, what nerve. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
maybe it was a set up for the dealers brother in law to pick up a 2210 cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[trlong]

hodoms,

I'm copying and printing those #'s. Probably won't do much good but, I'll keep several copies in my car and drop one off at ANY tractor dealer in the area I pass by. Send me a PM and I'll add a Tel. # to contact, should anyone run across the #'s. Again, probably in Mexico by now, or on some one's back 40, but it couldn't hurt.


Sorry for your loss,

Tom

P.S. [Has it ever been suggested that there be a "Stolen Equipment" discussion forum on TBN? A linked spreadsheet wouldn't be very hard to set up.]

 

[danbike]

The AMA, not for doctors, runs a column in every issue of their magazine that lists serial numbers for stolen motorcycles. I don't know their batting average on returns, but I suspect that the posting in a national publication does help make the victim feel a bit better.

 

[linpat]

did u see the post about the 2210 for sale on e-bay?
it was taken off when i went 2 check and see.
check out the jd thread.

 

[AB4D]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your tractor, especially when it wasn't even in your posession. I feel your pain, I have had several things stolen from me over the years that were never recovered.

You might want to post the information concerning the theft on several of the stolen equipment listing web sites on the internet, such as http://www.nerusa.com/ If the thief tries to sell the tractor to the right person it may help with recovery. I hope you get your tractor back.

Jim

 

[BIG_R_Jr_3]

Hodoms I'm sorry for your loss, I would strongly suggest to get an attonery now while everything is still current & fresh in your mind. And my immediate action plan would be as follows:

Go to Dealer with Camera in Hand & start taking lots of pictures where the "Crime" occured............

The Gate, the fenced yard & all equipment on the dealers lot,
as well as inside & outside storage areas...

Try to limit your conversions with dealer, just get it & go.....

You will need a good time line as well as pictures to support your side and any written material that might have been issued on your work order. Also copy of police report.

Regardless of who pays for what this material will be of great importance to you & your case. It will be needed for an Insurance Loss as well as a Liable case against the dealer.

I personally believe you can prove that the Dealer is "Legally Liable" for your loss.

Your Tractor was left at his Dealership for repair, by which you & he agreed into for a said price and time. You gave him possension of the Tractor and the key to operate it. In exchange for said funds at completion.

At that point you have created a "Bailee Agreement" with your dealer. It is then in his "CARE, CUSTODY, & CONTROL"...
Till paid for and you pick it back up (PERIOD).

There have been alot of previous posts written here about Insurance Policies. That aren't correct but I feel to discuss now would only delay your progress and confuse you even more. Your the victim here, the ball so to speak is in your corner, what are you going to do next is more important I believe.