Help with Brush Fire Water Rig

[trook]

I am looking for a way to have some water available for some medium sized brush fires on my property. We are constantly burning limbs, dead trees, etc and I want a way to have some water available to suppress the fires if they tend to get out of control.

The average size brush pile is approximately 15-20ft in diameter and approximately 6-8 feet high. I do have a 100 gallon 3 point hitch sprayer with a good wand and decent pressure. I know this is not much, but it is certainly better than nothing.

I also have at my disposal a 250 gallon tote tank and a portable gas water pump that is supposed to pump up to 9000 gallons/hr. We have a 5ac lake I can pull water from to fill my tote tank, but the piles of brush are too far from the lake to draw straight from the lake to the brush piles with hose.

My thought are, after disking around the brush pile:

1) use the 100 gallon tank with the tractor if needed. This would be very mobile but will not have lots of volume. Would this be sufficient?

2) set the tote tank close to the brush pile (with pallet forks) and hook up the water pump (but not turn it on) and have it on standby in case the fire starts to get too big. Then, if needed, I can start the water pump and pull from the 250 gallon tote and put out a large volume of water in a short period of time. I only have a 25ft "blue" 2" hose. I don't have any type of fire nozzle, etc and I imagine I would go through the 250 gallons pretty fast. I have made an adapter that will allow me to hook up a standard garden hose to the 2" blue hose, but I am afraid of what such a large volume of water may do to any type of standard sprayer nozzle, not to mention if it will harm my pump because of reduced flow of water.

Please give me your opinions on what I should consider.

 

[Wyobuckaroo]

Sounds good to me...........

First cut some form of fire break around your brush pile. With a disc or shank digger of some kind. Go two rounds on the down wind side of the pile.
Use your spray rig to damp down around the pile. Refill spray rig. Have the reserve water tank on the up wind side of brush pile.

Go for it.
Good luck

 

[bcp]

Or you could put the brush in the lake.

Building A Better Brush Pile | The Ultimate Bass Fishing Resource Guide® LLC

Bruce

 

[RFB]

Get yourself the following items:

1. 100' of 1 inch wildland firefighting hose, Niedner Spec. 187 - Type II Treated FORESTRY FIRE HOSE, 1 inch x 100 Ft. Yellow - 24884 available from Fire Etc

2. a nozzle, Lexan Red Plastic Nozzle (1 Inch NST) from Fire Etc

3. Fittings to attach to your 250 tank/pump

4. A gallon of Joy dish detergent.

Put 1/4 of the bottle into the 100, and the rest into the 250. The detergent functions as a surfactant. It is not as good as Class A Foam, but it will definitely enhance the firefighting ability of your water

 

[adjusterr]

Living on the side of a mountain surrounded by trees, brush and uncut fields, with neighbors who open burn, I'm considering building a towable pump/tank system. I have the trailer and several 360 gallon tanks. I'll follow suggestions from RFB re: hose, nozzle and dish detergent. My concern is what type of pump should I get. I've been looking at Tractor Supply but there are numerous choices. Any suggestions would be appreciated

 

[JRP]

Living on the side of a mountain surrounded by trees, brush and uncut fields, with neighbors who open burn, I'm considering building a towable pump/tank system. I have the trailer and several 360 gallon tanks. I'll follow suggestions from RFB re: hose, nozzle and dish detergent. My concern is what type of pump should I get. I've been looking at Tractor Supply but there are numerous choices. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Honda WH20 pump. A used one from eBay has served me well for years. It is higher pressure and lighter, useful for fire work. Low flow won't hurt a centrifugal pump, as long as it is not no flow until the water boils from heat build up.

Look for 1 1/2" fire hose and fittings - eBay. Cheap and suitable for high pressure. I got 500 feet from work free cause it had pin holes.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Thanks for the specific recommendations RFB. I was just lurking this on thread to gain information.

 

[trook]

I have a tractor supply trash pump. I know this may not be the best choice, but would it be sufficient as long as I don't let it run too long without without water moving over the pump?

 

[RFB]

Trash pumps, at least in the genre I have used (independent engine powered e.g B&S/Honda etc), are not self-priming, (as opposed to positive-displacement pumps). They are centrifugal pumps that use a volute that utilizes centrifugal force "throwing" water to the external diameter over the vanes, that is then collected in the housing for the volute and moved to discharge. These pumps usually need water poured into the priming orifice, and then constant supply to the eye (intake) of the volute to maintain pressure. When you lose prime you must start over.

 

[RFB]

"Look for 1 1/2" fire hose..."

I tend to disagree re. the hose diameter for a short run (100').

Yes, there is a significant reduction in friction loss from 1 inch to 1.5 inch, but for 100 feet, the effect is not so important. One of the issues is the amount and constancy of your water supply. If you have an unlimited supply, certainly 1.5 is a good choice, and particularly when you are putting in a mile of hose on one flank of a fire. The friction loss does add up.

For 250 gallons, and (for the sake of the argument, relatively untrained and inexperienced firefighting skills), 1 inch hose will give you plenty of ability without quickly exhausting your supply, and 100 feet should enable good maneuverability without making the system more than it needs to be.

 

[johns_dmax]

I don't have the time to try to fab up something so I'm looking at the 500 gallon Kiser Water Wagon. I'll use it watering our riding arena, landscaping needs, and fire control if needed. We had a major fire come up to our property line last summer and just a week ago we had one of our 4H moms start a fire while working on her truck. Both were to close for comfort. The price is a bit steep, $5700 shipped to OKC, but we have the funds and the need. That price included the quick fill and fire hose option and is off road one axle.
Here's a link to Kiser's site for more info http://www.abiequine.com/products/water-wagons/500-1000-1600-water-wagon.html

 

[RFB]

Try to use pumps that will provide 100psi at the nozzle.

Most combination (fog/straight stream) nozzles function optimally at that pressure.

The friction loss for 30 gpm through 100 feet of 1 inch hose is roughly 13 to 14 psi, so you will need a pump capable of 114 psi to obtain 30 gpm at the nozzle.

Alternatively, if you go with 1.5 inch hose, you will be flowing about 90 gpm. Think of how long you will have to drain a 250 gallon tank at that rate. I am not saying it cannot be done, but in most things, people do not rise to the occasion. Instead, they default to their highest level of training. I would rather give a well intentioned but less trained person almost 9 minutes of water rather than 2.7 minutes.

 

[RFB]

That looks like a nice system. I would downsize the firehose to 1" rather 2 inch and make it 100 feet long. You have no friction loss issues with 100' or less of hose, and the pump is capable of 140gpm at 40 psi. If you reduce your gpm (going to smaller diameter hose and nozzle) you will increase the nozzle working pressure which provides better performance for fire nozzles. (100psi desired)

The added length of hose gives you a little better standoff; you won't need to pull so close to the fire before getting out and fighting it. It be hot.

I don't have the time to try to fab up something so I'm looking at the 500 gallon Kiser Water Wagon. I'll use it watering our riding arena, landscaping needs, and fire control if needed. We had a major fire come up to our property line last summer and just a week ago we had one of our 4H moms start a fire while working on her truck. Both were to close for comfort. The price is a bit steep, $5700 shipped to OKC, but we have the funds and the need. That price included the quick fill and fire hose option and is off road one axle.
Here's a link to Kiser's site for more info http://www.abiequine.com/products/water-wagons/500-1000-1600-water-wagon.html

http://www.abiequine.com/products/water-wagons/500-1000-1600-water-wagon.html

 

[CBW1999]

A lot of good information and ideas here. never had heard of dish detergent in place of class A- think I'll give it a try.

I have a couple of considerations for my own set up based on my health. I used to run a couple of 2.5 gallon pump/air sprayers with water to use when burning off the field. I have some older "Indian tanks" but don't want to lug those around.

I've tinkered with a compressed air design using an air tank and separate, larger tank for the water. This I would mount to the tractor with a shorter length of hose and a short line I could operate from the tractor seat. Although not a true CAFS set up, it should help extend the water supply.

I don't have the same consideration of fire control as listed by others but, I use this to "control" burn my property. My exposures are limited and I am able to drive around as needed- including away, if safety becomes an issue.

 

[idaho2]

Sounds like a few of you have a real fire hazards due to drought. I think you have more of a need than I do. I have a fire truck that I'm willing to part with. It's a pumper/tanker with a 1000 gallon tank. PM me if this is of interest.

idaho2

 

[johns_dmax]

Thanks for the input. I'll see if there's an option to change the hose lenght and size from the factory and if not change it out once at home.
I'd rather stay as far from a wildfire as I can.

 

[RFB]

With the correct manpower deployment, equipment, terrain, tactics, weather and fuel load, it is not unusual to fight it with "one foot in the black". Notice the previous qualifications.

Also, its not just about how close you fight it, its about how fast it can approach you while you are readying to fight it. It would really be disappointing to pull up 25 feet away (because you have a 25' hose) and then have the wind shift and next thing you know is Uh Oh!

100 feet is not much, but its a little better than 25' in order to approach, park, start the pump (something I would do prior to engaging), flake the hose, charge the line and start fighting.

6 inches of grass can produce 6 feet of flame. It can make for an interesting day. Stay away from midslope fires, stay away from saddles, ridgelines and chimneys.
Don't go downslope to fight a fire. Find a good anchor point (where the fire cannot wrap around and outflank you) and then work the flank of the fire.

Also get yourself a shake and bake (fire shelter). If you get over-run, even jumping inside of a cab tractor or vehicle with windows up can still be fatal.

If its coming for your house like a runaway train, get inside, close the windows, pull the drapes away from the windows, get to the lee side of the house and stay inside. This type of over-run will storm over the house, consume most of the exposed vegetation, and maybe ignite parts of the house, but you will be safe after it blows over. Then you can go back out and try to extinguish your house with water that would have been ineffective trying to stop the train.

And the answer is yes; many times, over decades.

Thanks for the input. I'll see if there's an option to change the hose lenght and size from the factory and if not change it out once at home.
I'd rather stay as far from a wildfire as I can.

 

[gabby]

I bolted two 275 gallon totes on a 4' x 8' treated plywood pallet and connected them with pvc piping to a hydraulic motor pump. The pump is bolted to the pallet and it's controlled through the tractor remote valve. PVC valves direct the water to a hand hose or to right, center or left soaker nozzles.

The hydraulic pump is quiet and pumps about 100 gpm at low to medium engine rpm.

It's not pretty but it works well and it has many uses.

 

[edlegault]

Consider modern fire fighting foam. There are systems for home/farm use. Cartridge-type foam dispensers which attach to the end of the hose in place of the nozzle. Just "google" home foam fire fighting equipment.

I would have trailer mounted 200-300 gallon water tanks with pump(s), Two sets of 100 feet of 1" hose with both nozzle and foam capability. Beware -- A few hundred gallons of water will go FAST.

 

[boggen]

have you consider just getting a chipper/shredder? vs burning?


part of my arsenal, is a "bush broom" a 1 to 2 feet wide, and has tons of bristles in it. to smoother fire out.

if you have lake, and trash pump. consider setting up a permanent setup. that has a strainer, check valves (for priming pump and line), and quick disconnect. so you can just drive up, connect inlet on gas trash pump to quick connect at lake side, to fill up tank. vs trying to deal with getting hose out into water /lake ((time consuming)) for priming pump/hose. use a reducer to go up to 4", to act like a funnel, so it easier to use 5 gallon bucket. to pour water into the hoses.

have been tempted to buy a cheap trailer. and toss say a 400 to 500 gallon flat bottom tank on it. and strap a gas trash pump on to it.