Help with tractor hp/attachments

[lainemech]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum (was referred by someone on Norwood industries site). I don't know squat about tractors except how to start one and somewhat how to drive/operate one.

If anyone can help me out here, I need to know what size and horse power tractor with a FE loader I would need to load logs on a band saw mill and to move them around short distances. I don't know what the ratings mean for loaders (break out capacity??) nor how the horse power comes into play with the lifting (have seen some pretty strong hydraulic stuff with really low HP). I would want the smallest machine I could get to do the job. Looking at logs weighing up to around 2500 lbs. These are the logs the FEL would have to lift onto the mill. I'm looking for older, used, lowest cost tractors that would do the job.

If anyone can give me some advice, I would really appreciate it!

Thank's in advance,

Bob

 

[forester2]

Do you really want to dead lift logs or can you have a ramp setup that allows you to roll logs onto the carriage? Take a lot less tractor to do the later. Also, does your mill have a hyd. loading attachment from the manufacturer; many do.

 

[N80]

2500 pounds is going to be too much for most tractors in the compact utitlity class. This is for several reasons. First, most of them simply will not have the hydraulic capacity to do it. Second, even if the hydraulic specs look like they might work, you need to consider where the log will be lifted. If you us the bucket with bucket forks then the weight will be significantly outboard of the pivot points. Regular forks will allow more lift capacity. The third, and possible most significant limitation will be weight. Many modern CUTS are light. So even if they have the strength to lift that much weight, it might make them too light in the rear and thus tippy and potentially dangerous. Of course a tractor can be ballasted with fluid in the tires, wheel weights and weight on the 3 pt hitch etc.

As an example, I have a light, 45 hp tractor that is in the upper limits of what you'd call a CUT. I don't have the loader specs at hand but I don't think it is rated at 2500 that far out past the pivot point. And, even if it was, and even if it was ballasted fairly well, I think that would be too much wieght that far out in front, which risks damaging the front axle.

However, a basic, used utility tractor (as opposed to compact utility) might work just fine. These tend to be much heavier and would probably have better loader specs too.

A tractor like mine would probable be just fine if all you had to do was roll the log along and lift it a few feet onto the saw rails or onto the saw's hydraulic arms. A tractor like mine might also work if you used forks on the 3 pt hitch rather than the loader, but hitch forks are limited in lift height and flexibility.

I think I'd be looking at something along the lines of a 50-60 hp utility tractor.

Or maybe even a skid steer or off-road fork lift.

 

[Soundguy]

how big of logs? ( length and weight? )

how high to lift?

planning on using a grapple?

All these need to be know to size hp and hyd output on a mahcine.

soundguy

 

[bncsauve]

The neatest small log handler I've seen is a Bobcat type vehicle with a graple attachment on the front. It was able to pick up very large logs and manipulate them into pretty much any position. It was being used to load the back of an enclosed truck. It was pretty amazing and extremely manueverable. You might be able to find a used version. No CUT I ever seen could match it for log handling

 

[teg]

Ditto what bncsauve said... skidsteer. Seen used ones sold on Craigslist many times.

 

[N80]

Another ditto. Before I ever knew anything about tractors I saw a little bobcat pick up a log in my neighbor's yard. I saw that it was going to try and I even went outside to watch because I was sure is was either going to roll the skidsteer over or break it. The log was huge and the skidsteer was tiny. It snatched it right up, spun around on a dime and dumped it into a log truck with ease.

 

[lainemech]

Hi again guy's,

Thanks to all for the fast replies!

I guess I need to give a little more info as to what I want to find out "learn" about tractors and their capabilities.
At this time, I'm not sure what I will "actually" be able to do with a tractor w/FEL in a saw mill setting. I will be budgeting all my equipment purchases, so will use this info (from all that will share) to make a "somewhat" educated decision when purchasing, and look for the "best choice" based on the info I get. I know I may not be able to get the best "tool" for the job within a budget.

1) need to know what the loader spec's are(how they rate them), and what they mean?

2) how does HP affect the hydraulic capacity(if a given HP tractor can pull "X" amount, what is the relationship to what it can hyd'ly. lift etc.)?

I understand that if it doesn't have enough "meat" in it's butt it can't lift too much no matter what the loader can do. I also know (from way too many years ago) that very low HP tractors can pull amazingly large loads (question #2). I just don't know about the FEL.
As far as how big/long/heavy? Well, a tree is a tree. Somes is bigger than others But I would guess on average I would be looking at 18-24" logs up to 12' long, weighing anywhere between approx. 1000-2000lbs. Larger/heavier logs would be man handled onto the mill using ramps, winches, cant hooks and the grace of God. With the "big-un's", the tractor would only come into play to roll or drag the log close to the mill. Lifting would only be as much as 3' or so off the ground to set logs on the rails. I would be using a set of "true" forks, not add-ons to the bucket.

So, if any info you professional tractor guy's can help a tractorly challenged individual here, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the answers that y'all have already given!

Bob

 

[flusher]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum (was referred by someone on Norwood industries site). I don't know squat about tractors except how to start one and somewhat how to drive/operate one.

If anyone can help me out here, I need to know what size and horse power tractor with a FE loader I would need to load logs on a band saw mill and to move them around short distances. I don't know what the ratings mean for loaders (break out capacity??) nor how the horse power comes into play with the lifting (have seen some pretty strong hydraulic stuff with really low HP). I would want the smallest machine I could get to do the job. Looking at logs weighing up to around 2500 lbs. These are the logs the FEL would have to lift onto the mill. I'm looking for older, used, lowest cost tractors that would do the job.

If anyone can give me some advice, I would really appreciate it!

Thank's in advance,

Bob

I assume you've considered skid steer (Bobcats, etc) and rejected these because of ground conditions (soil rather than gravel or concrete surfaces).

My Mahindra 5525 tractor (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto) has a ML250 FEL rated at 2980 lb lift at the bucket pivot pins to full height (10.5 ft). The tractor weighs 5370 lb without the FEL and about 6000 lb with the FEL. You can add about 500 lb of weight by filling the rear tires with water (hydro-inflation).

I mention the 5525 just to give you an idea of the size tractor I would feel comfortable with lifting and transporting 2500 lb logs (tractor weight about twice the weight of the FEL load). Of course, I'd replace the FEL bucket with a grapple. And I would have the skid steer attachment option on the FEL arms to handle the grapple. My 5525/FEL combo is in the $17K range excluding sales tax.

I don't find any ag tractors now on eBay that I would bid on for your application (search eBay using "loader tractor" keywords). But there are several tractor-loader-backhoes (TLBs) in the $10K range on eBay that I might consider.

 

[Soundguy]

HP doesn't have much to do with hyd capacity.. only takes a few hp draw of fthe engine to get alot of ram moving. that said.. you gave us some info we needed.

2000# logs.. that's hefty... kicks you right up into CUT mid+ size I wouldn't want to handle 2000# on my loader and not be at minimum 35hp at the tractor.. with good weights and a wide stance if that log is 12' long.. Heavier and a tad more hp ( hand in hand ) would be better..

soundguy

Hi again guy's,


Thanks to all for the fast replies!

I guess I need to give a little more info as to what I want to find out "learn" about tractors and their capabilities.
At this time, I'm not sure what I will "actually" be able to do with a tractor w/FEL in a saw mill setting. I will be budgeting all my equipment purchases, so will use this info (from all that will share) to make a "somewhat" educated decision when purchasing, and look for the "best choice" based on the info I get. I know I may not be able to get the best "tool" for the job within a budget.

1) need to know what the loader spec's are(how they rate them), and what they mean?

2) how does HP affect the hydraulic capacity(if a given HP tractor can pull "X" amount, what is the relationship to what it can hyd'ly. lift etc.)?

I understand that if it doesn't have enough "meat" in it's butt it can't lift too much no matter what the loader can do. I also know (from way too many years ago) that very low HP tractors can pull amazingly large loads (question #2). I just don't know about the FEL.
As far as how big/long/heavy? Well, a tree is a tree. Somes is bigger than others But I would guess on average I would be looking at 18-24" logs up to 12' long, weighing anywhere between approx. 1000-2000lbs. Larger/heavier logs would be man handled onto the mill using ramps, winches, cant hooks and the grace of God. With the "big-un's", the tractor would only come into play to roll or drag the log close to the mill. Lifting would only be as much as 3' or so off the ground to set logs on the rails. I would be using a set of "true" forks, not add-ons to the bucket.

So, if any info you professional tractor guy's can help a tractorly challenged individual here, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the answers that y'all have already given!

Bob