Help with training my dog

[Robert_in_NY]

I have a chocolate lab/grey hound mix pup which is around 18 months old. I only got her in april and while she is an extremely friendly and great dog she does have quite a few behavior problems. I have to keep her caged up as she will destroy everything if I don't. She chews up anything she can start to get her mouth on. Her chewing problem isn't what I am too concerned with right now.

I keep her at my house I am working on which is next door to where I am staying. I do a lot with her and let her out 4-5 times a day when the weather is bad. I have to keep her on a leash though as she loves to run and living on Rt 20 is not a good situation for her as there is way too much traffic. When I am at my house either relaxing or working I have her out of her cage and allow her to have run of the house as I want her to be a house dog. But if I do not keep her in the same room with me 24/7 she will take off to the upstairs and use the bathroom up there. It doesn't matter what I do to discourage her she still does it. As it stands I am about to give up on her being an indoor dog but I can't leave her chained to a dog house nor will I leave her to live in a cage so if I can't get her house broke I am going to have to give her away. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can break her from using the upstairs as a private bathroom? She doesn't even give me any notice that she has to use the bathroom, she just does it but then cowers down when I notice it as she knows she did something wrong. So she does know right from wrong but still does it Thanks

 

[plowking]

I asked my daughter about your dog,she works in a doggy day care and grooms dogs. She thinks it may have to do with the previous owners care or how they trained the dog. That breed may have to be kenneled or caged until it is older. There is also obedience training that can be tried. We have a few dogs and have good luck with the puppy pads and going out with the older dogs helps the puppy to learn. Winter is a hard time to train for outdoors. plowking

 

[crusty 1]

Robert,I,m going through about the same thing only my new little sheltie is only 9 weeks old.I close doors so she can,t venture too far,get her out about every half hour for potty breaks,take the food and water away about an hour before I,d like to go to sleep and her last walk for the night.I honestly don,t know what to say because it seems the[dog] is harder than my kids ever were.But I,m sure thats because I was gone during the day and missed all the fun I also snap Sohies theeth with my finger to let her know that chewing isn,t allowed.Sounds like we,re both in for some fun times:laughingave

 

[gauthier]

I have a beagle,he stays outside, and he poops and pees wherever he takes a notion.

 

[captaincrab55]

Robert, Check your PM box...

 

[dave1949]

I would start by denying her access to the upstairs by putting a child gate across the stairway opening.

I am a big fan of fenced yards for dogs. Some expense and a hassle too, but then you have somewhere to put her when she doesn't have good house manners that is safe and not like being tied out either. Then train her that she will get bannished from the house for several hours if she misbehaves. If you can catch her in the act, carry her to the door and set her out. No fumbling for leashes etc. that may only confuse the dog.

It's possible she was never properly house trained and is trying to do what she was trained, either on purpose or by default, to do by a former owner. And for some reason - you aren't happy

Just when I thought one of our puppies was over the chewing stage, she ripped about 4' of pine baseboard off the wall when I was away for several hours. I'm sure the Minwax stain was yummy. She did outgrow the chewing though.
Dave.

 

[keegs]

To add to Dave's suggestion, if you can afford it, an "Invisible Fence" may provide a measure of safety for your dog and some relief for you. They offer several training packages for you and the dog.

Some years back my sister took in a very difficult dog. It did all the things you mentioned and bit twice. She found a professional dog trainer and over the course of a year and a considerable investment in time and money, its behavior improved significantly.

 

[Sigarms]

For outside recall issues, look at the Dogtra line of "training collars". You get what you pay for on training collars from my experience. The better ones offer you a "vibrate" only mode, as well as "nick" and "continuous" for the shock (as well as numerous settings to determine what level you need to go to to get a response).

Invisible fence is a second thought.

I would start by denying her access to the upstairs by putting a child gate across the stairway opening.

Ditto. Go to Babies are us, look for the ones you mount (screw) onto the door frame.

For house training, have you tried crate training?

Remember, the crate or cage shouldn't be a place for punishment. Anytime the dog goes into the crate, the experience should be a positive one (such as praise or a treat). The crate or cage should feel like "home" to the dog and the animal should feel comfortable in the enclosed area. Hopefully before you know it, the animal will want to be in the crate even if it doesn't have to go in.

Do you limit the dogs water? Make sure you pull the water off the floor after a certain time at night. Do you have a set ritual of when you take the dog out? Always remember, good praise and a treat for behavior that is wanted and got. Also always remember that if you don't catch her in the act of unwanted behavior, any type of punishment you give her after the fact is almost a lost cause.

We had to put our yellow lab down after 10 years. It was her time. Just the other day we had family over we hadn't seen in years, and we showed them our wedding video because they couldn't make it (wedding). We had the lab with us on our honeymoon in Stowe (wifes from Vermont, left the dog with her parents), but seeing the video of the lab at three years old, I completely forgot how much ENERGY she had even at three (my wife told me she was much worse up to two years old, as the dog was my wifes before I met her).

Guess my long story is that labs can have a tendancy to be wild at times (more like playful steam). Even when she was pushing 10, if we left a bathroom door open, she (the dog) would grab the end of the toilet paper and pull it throughout the house wagging her tail (seemed like she was saying "you can't catch me!").

 

[VABlue]

Ditto to every word Sigarms just wrote! The dog does not need run of the entire house to be happy, just those rooms you frequent most. Put gates up wherever needed to give the dog access to those rooms only, and find a place for a correct sized kennel crate to live. That will prove invaluable once you're used to it - a safe place the dog can relax in, and a haven for you when you are over the dogs energy level! (Face it, we can't always deal with all of it , but crates are NOT for punishment.) Also, dogs live by routine. They don't need variation in their diet or in the times they're fed or let out. Get a routine that's easy for you to handle and the dog will adapt to it in only a couple of days. Life will get so much more calm...

A word about fenced yards... Lay out the expense and time to get one if you love your dog. It seriously removes the worry from letting a dog out unsupervised. It will also make your neighbors much happier because they won't have to deal with your dog.

Pee pads or newspapers? I have no use for them since they do nothing but teach a dog to pee in the house. Just doesn't make sense to me... That said, in full disclosure, we put one down every night for the two yorkies (combined 8 pounds) since it's impossible to completely house break tiny dogs...

So, partake in some obedience lessons at your local pet store, put in gates and a routine, and think about a fence. You'll be good to go in no time...

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks, I will get another gate to keep her from the upstairs as she doesn't seem to have any "problems" on the first floor. The basement is another story though :laughing:

I have been working with her to get her to want to go to her cage and she has finally got to the point where she listens and will go into her cage and sit there. I use to put new pieces of carpet in there but she destroyed them so I don't have anything in there that will make it softer as she destroys it in a matter of hours. But I do reward her for good behavior and for going to her cage like she is suppose to. We are currently working with her on commands like heel, sit and lay down. She knows them but needs to be worked with more which I am doing.

I am not sure about the invisible fence but will look into it. My girlfriends black lab is very well behaved and can run free and my neighbors black lab is the same way. They can come and go on both properties as they wish. Sasha (my pup) has to stay on a leash or tied off to a tree by a ditch with flowing water (I have two different spots where I tie her out so she can be outside and have a cool place to lay).

One thing I do know is that she comes to you when you shoot a gun. I believe she was originally being trained as a deer search dog. I met another guy who had a dog identical to her and the same age and from the same area and he told me he trains them for deer search. He said if the dog doesn't show promise around 6 months old he gets rid of it. Thats when the lady I got it from originally got Sasha. If I fire my pistol Sasha will come running right to me from anywhere and sit down. She loves trailing scents as well. The dog I saw with the deer search guy was a twin to Sasha which is a slender, chocolate lab/grey hound mix.

I am going to try limiting her access in the house and see how she does and will let you guys know in a month or so if its working. Thanks.

 

[walterc]

Just a suggestion on the time outside. My neighbor has a collar on his dogs that is tied to a controller just inside the door. The collar is set to give them a little shock if they get farther from the controller than the collar is set for. And each collar can be set for various distances depending on the circumstances. Sometime he lets them run the whole yard and other times they can't get farther than the front porch. No fence (either buried electric or built) and absolute control in how far they roam.

As far as the inside stuff, I agree with the rest, crate train, baby gates, set schedule, lots of praise for good behavior.

And obedience. If you have the obedience thing down, they respond to other training pretty easy.

 

[VABlue]

Your neighbor has an electronic fence in the the wireless flavor. Easier to install, but does the same thing! All electronic fences require training, they don't 'just work' right out of the box, and high energy dogs they can run right through them with no problems whatsoever.

For obedience, start with 'sit'. When the dog knows it, move on to 'stay' by backing up. From there, 'come' can be worked in. Before moving on to each command, make sure the dog knows the one your training inside and out. If you put too much into it, you'll get nothing out of it. And forget about 'down' for now, that's a very submissive command and the dog really needs to understand his place before he'll readily take to it. Eventually, 'sit' will become 'stay' - whenever you want them to sit, you also want them to stay where they are, so make it one command.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks everyone. I am looking forward to putting your advice to use

 

[Sigarms]

and high energy dogs they can run right through them with no problems whatsoever.

That, and then when those high energy dogs get tuckered out, they won't come back to the house because they don't want to get zapped when they get close to the fence. I know more than a couple of people that have had to turn off their electric fence to get their dogs back onto the property, which IMO really screws up their training.

Invisible fences also don't keep unwanted animals out.

My girlfriends black lab is very well behaved and can run free and my neighbors black lab is the same way. They can come and go on both properties as they wish.

Perhaps this is a personal opinion, but any animal (who has unlimited freedom to "roam") in the care of two legged critters should never be left oustide alone without supervision. Perhaps part of my opinion is due to all the dogs in my local area killed on the side of the road, at which point the owners just get another dog. If a dog is considered personal property, don't you have an obligation to know what your property is doing?

 

[VABlue]

Most of the electronic fences anymore have technology built in to allow the dog back into the yard without a correction. But that and keeping the unwanteds out are both good points!

 

[dmccarty]

Over the years I read a few dog training books.

The one(s) I liked the best were from The Monks of Skete, Dog Training.

Some of the best sections talk about research regarding the dogs psychology. How dogs mature and think.

Later,
Dan

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That, and then when those high energy dogs get tuckered out, they won't come back to the house because they don't want to get zapped when they get close to the fence. I know more than a couple of people that have had to turn off their electric fence to get their dogs back onto the property, which IMO really screws up their training.

Invisible fences also don't keep unwanted animals out.



Perhaps this is a personal opinion, but any animal (who has unlimited freedom to "roam") in the care of two legged critters should never be left oustide alone without supervision. Perhaps part of my opinion is due to all the dogs in my local area killed on the side of the road, at which point the owners just get another dog. If a dog is considered personal property, don't you have an obligation to know what your property is doing?

I should clarify, both black labs are supervised. They just don't need to be leashed 24/7 which is what I meant by run free. Sasha is the first dog I have had in 20 years just because I didn't want to worry about one getting loose and get hit on the road, that's why I am trying to work with her to get her to listen to my commands and hopefully stay away from the road.

 

[Redneck in training]

Check this guy out. He has a show called "Dog whisperer" on National Geographic Channel.

Cesar Millan's Official Website | Achieving balance between people and dogs.

 

[Sigarms]

I should clarify, both black labs are supervised. They just don't need to be leashed 24/7 which is what I meant by run free. Sasha is the first dog I have had in 20 years just because I didn't want to worry about one getting loose and get hit on the road, that's why I am trying to work with her to get her to listen to my commands and hopefully stay away from the road.

Sorry, just that so many people around my area leave their animals unsupervised I assume otherwise unless noted.

Dogtra (I use the 2300 "two dog" series)

I've found this product line to be one of the better training collars out on the market (I do test them out on myself, and even at 500 yards, strength of the collar does does not diminish).

The disadvantage to this type of collar is that you can't have it act as a "fenced in area" leaving the animal unsupervised.

However, the bigger advantage is that no matter where you go with your animal, you have a corrective training measures that you can take to help you train your dog, and you can utilize the collar in a direct relationship with your voice commands.

Bringing so many types of animals into our home, we aren't sure who are "bolters" and who aren't. Perhaps utilizing this training tool makes me lazy, but I've found that at 0430 in the morning before work, out with the dogs, and one takes off after a rabbit out back, I like to have more control at my discression (sp?).

The advantage to a collar like the one I'm posting is that you have a wide range of control in the strength of the shock applied (0 to 127 in strength), be it a nick or conitunous, and you can use a vibrate mode as well. The key is starting off "low" (0-20 range) to see at what point you get the dogs attention. The shock can be a "nick" (split second quick jolt) or it can be continuous as long as you hold the button down (the unit will automatically shut off if held down for 12 seconds or more).

After a short time using the collar in conjunction with your voice commands, I've really never had a dog that didn't learn it's boundaries (which is the primary reason for the collar). Also, most of the times, if I want to take a corrective measure on the dogs boundaries, I don't even have to use the shock mode, just vibrate.

Should note I always start training off on vibrate and if the dog isn't responsive, then the "nick" mode at lower levels, then higher levels, then to the continuous mode, lower levels, working up.

The dog learns that if it doesn't correct it's behavior after the vibrate mode, a nick may be coming, or even continuous after that (although it never gets to that point after a couple of weeks with the collar on).

Dog on high prey drive chasing after an animal has never made it past 90.

Keep in mind, some dogs do become "dog collar" smart if you keep taking off and putting on the collar.

Also keep in mind, although I've never come across a dog that would, depending on the animals past history which may be unknown, using a shock collar for training may produce a negative response (as as "bolting", the behavior your actually trying to correct). I've never had it happen to me, but I'd rather take the chance and find out (using the training collar) to ensure that the animal doesn't bolt or wonder to close to the road (usually walked on a lead for some time before left to roam with the other dogs).

 

[VABlue]

I have extensive experience with remote collars from my field trial days with retrievers. Although I use the TriTronics models (the only thing you'll find in the retriever world), they all work the same. The dog MUST understand the command you're trying to enforce, or the response will be confusion and timidity - not what you're looking for. Train the command first, reinforce it with the collar after.

I've also read the monks book mentioned earlier, and it's a good read with good training points. Others to read are 'Gun Dog' from Richard Wolters (met him at a couple of events when I was just starting) - great book to read for basic obedience training. Well written and easy to follow, everything will just make sense. Just don't pay any attention to the timelines he keeps referencing, your dog will advance at its own pace. Another to read (especially if you decide to use a collar) is 'TriTronics Retriever Training' by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs. Does a great job of teaching you how to incorporate and use the collar. The Dobbs' were the first trainers to really utilize the collar and pioneered most of the methods still used today. I met them while attending a couple of their seminars, great people and very knowledgeable.

Reading any of the books mentioned will give you more info than you'll get here, and you'll always have it available for reference. Of course, there are a boat load of other books on the subject, all of which will be useful in some way. Your job is to read them, pick out the bits that work for you, and train your dog how you need him trained.