Help with winterizing my well

[keegs]

You can do without it, but you have to plan for it. Like Tig said, layout the well to house supply line with the slope that will allow you to drain the line and tank. What the valve really helps do is release the vacuum formed by the water column in the well and supply line. Plus, somewhere around your pressure tank there will be a check valve that isn't going allow the water to go backwards. That will complicate your life a bit when trying to drain the supply line. There will be a boiler drain valve installed in the supply line on the well side of that check valve along with the drain down valve in the well. You could put that in either way for $2.99.

If the valve prevented you from having to replace the water line once, it will have paid for itself. To replace the line, it will have to be dug up from the well to house. There goes your landscaping. You can save some of that by running a 4" PVC pipe from your basement wall to the well, putting the supply line inside that pipe. All of this is well below frost line, for you at least 5'. The pressure tank itself is hellishly expensive but easy to drain. Wish I had a better answer on the pros and cons vs money spent.
Dave.

Thanks again for the assist Dave. I had a 2" knock out put in at the center of the rear foundation wall about 1-2 inches off the floor that's well below 5 feet from grade. I planned to put the expansion tank in this general area. My concern is with the pipe freezing in that first five feet south of the where the pipe enters the house.

My guess is that (and it's just a guess) the downward slope you guys mentioned should extend to the entry point in the well casing in order to get the water in the line away from the house regardless of whether there's a drain back valve. Unless of course the valve release is strong enough to suck all the water back down??? Do you know of any issues with these valves failing? I try to hew toward simple in these designs if possible.

I had trouble getting the foundation drain to daylight, running into some kind of shale (sedimentary) ledge along the way. I hope I don't hit the same thing here. And the PVC conduit sounds like a good idea.

All the points you raise about monitoring the place have entered my thoughts at one time or another. I had a draw string installed for a land line and there's WIFI available from a local broadband provider. I haven't decided on what to do yet with that. Until then, the diamonds and furs will be traveling back and forth with us...

 

[dave1949]

Thanks again for the assist Dave. I had a 2" knock out put in at the center of the rear foundation wall about 1-2 inches off the floor that's well below 5 feet from grade. I planned to put the expansion tank in this general area. My concern is with the pipe freezing in that first five feet south of the where the pipe enters the house.

My guess is that (and it's just a guess) the downward slope you guys mentioned should extend to the entry point in the well casing in order to get the water in the line away from the house regardless of whether there's a drain back valve. Unless of course the valve release is strong enough to suck all the water back down??? Do you know of any issues with these valves failing? I try to hew toward simple in these designs if possible.

I had trouble getting the foundation drain to daylight, running into some kind of shale (sedimentary) ledge along the way. I hope I don't hit the same thing here. And the PVC conduit sounds like a good idea.

All the points you raise about monitoring the place have entered my thoughts at one time or another. I had a draw string installed for a land line and there's WIFI available from a local broadband provider. I haven't decided on what to do yet with that. Until then, the diamonds and furs will be traveling back and forth with us...

No I don't know of any longevity problems with the drain down valves. Maybe a real plumber will chime in.

If you have a drain down valve in the well, then yes I think it would be helpful to slope the supply down from the house to the well. That will allow it to empty once you open the boiler drain valve at the house end. The drain down valve once opened will 'suck' or siphon the water back some I think, until air gets to it. Picture 'shooting' a beer

If not using the drain down valve in the well, what Tig said makes a lot of sense. Make the last 10' or so of the supply line slope down at the house end. Then, when you open the boiler drain valve, the one you need to install on the well side of the check valve, the air has a chance of displacing the water, allowing the pipe to drain towards the house for that 10' stretch or so. That should be enough to keep it from ever freezing since you are down at a good depth with your knockout.

Winterizing a home is so much fun. We had our interior plumbing filled with RV antifreeze for the winter when we had our camp. That was after the first year when the power went out and we had to replace some lines and a toilet bowl If you have the chance, get your plumbing in the house layed out to make it easy to drain down. Dump some RV antifreeze in your toilets and drain traps.

Good luck.
Dave.

 

[keegs]

If not using the drain down valve in the well, what Tig said makes a lot of sense. Make the last 10' or so of the supply line slope down at the house end. Then, when you open the boiler drain valve, the one you need to install on the well side of the check valve, the air has a chance of displacing the water, allowing the pipe to drain towards the house for that 10' stretch or so.

It does make allot of sense. Thanks gents.

 

[Tig]

We have had this place for 10 years. I got tired of plumbing surprises every year. There were unused pipes everywhere I redid the place, now it all drains into the sump pump in 20 mins.
Well still freezes if I don't/can't bury it in snow and we get a cold (-25) north wind for a few days. My well is a 30" drafty tile, water level is about 6' below ground. I plan on replacing it with a drilled well.
Drilled wells are much less prone to problems like that. If you do want extra protection at the well. A inch or more of blue foam plug below ground level would make it real tough for mother nature to mess with you.
Run a rope through the center of the plug and put a knot in it just in case you need to remove it some day. The plug does not have to fit real tight. Just enough to cut down on convection currents from the cold well casing that is above ground.

 

[keegs]

We have had this place for 10 years. I got tired of plumbing surprises every year. There were unused pipes everywhere I redid the place, now it all drains into the sump pump in 20 mins.
Well still freezes if I don't/can't bury it in snow and we get a cold (-25) north wind for a few days. My well is a 30" drafty tile, water level is about 6' below ground. I plan on replacing it with a drilled well.
Drilled wells are much less prone to problems like that. If you do want extra protection at the well. A inch or more of blue foam plug below ground level would make it real tough for mother nature to mess with you.
Run a rope through the center of the plug and put a knot in it just in case you need to remove it some day. The plug does not have to fit real tight. Just enough to cut down on convection currents from the cold well casing that is above ground.

Thanks Steve. I was considering PEX tubing for the supply lines. Word has it that PEX holds up better in freezing conditions. But my guess is it may not be as easy to get it to drain. Mabe I should reconsider...or maybe use air pressure to blow out the lines....not sure.

The plug sounds like easy cheap insurance.

A few years back here in Jersey I woke up to hearing water swishing as cars drove by the house. It wasn't raining...

The city water line to the house had been susceptable to freezing when we had exteneded periods of single digit temps. My guess is the freezing caused the pipe to fail.

The run from the house to the street is about 100'. I decided to dig it up by hand and about half way to the street discovered ledge about 18" below grade. It wasn't looking good there for a while until someone who came to look at removing the ledge got the idea to drill through it. It was about a 15'-20' run through rock. It was done in a day with the hole lined with poly pipe. I haven't had any trouble with frozen pipes since. Have a whole new appreciation for modern plumbing.

 

[studor]

My line to the well is about 4 feet underground and only about 7 feet from the basement wall. Why it chose last year to freeze is an unknown but it did. It had never frozen before. There is a thread on here somewhere about the experience. The suggestions about a well plug and covering are all good. The heater wire I put in it is designed to be retrofitted into black plastic water pipe. The place I bought it from also make heater in pipe if you are running new lines. If you have any doubts about freezing it solves the problem with very little electrical cost. Now if I am not going to be there for awhile I drain the system to the pump and rely on the heater wire to keep the line thawed. I have an insulated box over the well head now.

 

[Kays Supply]

I just started installing PEX last year. One application is in a barn loft apartment being used until the house is built. It has frozen solid several times with no damage yet. The up side is that in the application being discussed, if it didn't drain down 100% it would proably not cause any damage.

There is a drain down valve made for wells that has a "whisker" that sticks out the side. You just take a stick and push down and it lets the water drain back into the well. Pretty simple.

 

[JohninCT]

Found this info on Danfoss auto drain valve. Listed price is between $48 and $68

70 Auto Drain Valve | Danfoss Flomatic Corporation